Christian Club.

[The BB of C offline]

Finally, the type of answer I was looking for
I consider mortal sin to be one human killing another in any way. But I do guess that there are different levels to it and what is really better than the other. Like someone running over a kid in the road by accident because he was running after a ball and got clothslined by your Volkswagon, or maybe a soldier killing someone in a battle, or basically going on a homosidal rampage like you said.

[TB3]

Finally, the type of answer I was looking for
I consider mortal sin to be one human killing another in any way. But I do guess that there are different levels to it and what is really better than the other. Like someone running over a kid in the road by accident because he was running after a ball and got clothslined by your Volkswagon, or maybe a soldier killing someone in a battle, or basically going on a homosidal rampage like you said.

Hmm - 'thou shalt not kill' - yet God himself was quite the warmonger - I mean, didn't he order Joshua to slaughter all the Canaanites just for inhabiting a bit of real estate that God had picked out for the Israelites. He also athorised the murder of the civilian males, right down to the infant boys, and the taking of the woman and female children as slaves.

To kill is awful - yet I feel it is forgivable - that said I accept there are a range of levels by which one kills, from the guy who ran over my friend James at a road junction by accident and then ran off without reporting the accident, to the mentally ill kids at Columbine, to the Crusaders doing 'God's work' - or Reinhard Heydrich when he planned the Holocaust.

The way I see it is that the punishment for Mortal Sin such as murder (or any sin depending on your slant) is an eternity in Hell, and IMO opinion no-one should face that fate without a chance at salvation - and that goes from your average Joe to Adolph Hitler.

[Lyokofreak offline]

7th Day Adventist here, thats why im not on often on saturdays

Coveting, Stealing and other things listed in the ten commandments... We most likely commit these sins whether we want to or not. Murder is no exception. If you even think of lying, you've commited a sin. Its equal to murder. They are rules, all are the same. If you lie or do something bad, you should feel just and guilty as a murderer. As murdering being considered a simple lie. It may sound misconcepted, but its the truth.

[The BB of C offline]

Awesome point, TB3. But I'm still not taking any chances

[TB3]

Awesome point, TB3. But I'm still not taking any chances

Cheers! And good on you too - no good going out saying 'I'm gonna kill people and it's OK because God will forgive me' - we have various names for these people in history: martyrs, idiots, crusaders, suicide bombers etc - don't forget that religion has caused more an bloodier wars than any other thing in human history.

I know this is called 'The Christian Club' but I'm kinda hoping that some of our fellow human beings of other faiths and convictions can turn up - I always love hearing other opinions and trading ideas and philosphies (EDIT: In case I come accross as too overbearing - I'd like to reiterate that I vaue and esteem all faiths at the same level) - maybe we should ask Daisymay to rename it 'Religion 101' or something.

[Lyokofreak offline]

TB3, No sin is worse than the other. They can all be forgiven equally. They aren't exactly commited the same but the bible doesen't say one sin is worse than the others.

[The BB of C offline]

Awesome point, TB3. But I'm still not taking any chances

Cheers! And good on you too - no good going out saying 'I'm gonna kill people and it's OK because God will forgive me' - we have various names for these people in history: martyrs, idiots, crusaders, suicide bombers etc - don't forget that religion has caused more an bloodier wars than any other thing in human history.

I know this is called 'The Christian Club' but I'm kinda hoping that some of our fellow human beings of other faiths and convictions can turn up - I always love hearing other opinions and trading ideas and philosphies (EDIT: In case I come accross as too overbearing - I'd like to reiterate that I vaue and esteem all faiths at the same level) - maybe we should ask Daisymay to rename it 'Religion 101' or something.

Man, I'm sorry I ever doubted you. Just joking. But seriously I think that right there is really cool.

[TB3]

Thanks BBofC - umm, I wonder A: How you 'doubted' me and B: What you found 'cool', but thats to stoke my ego more than anything (SIN OF PRIDE! ARGH!)

I like to think a lot about my faith, rather than close my mind to other ideas - I also like to think of the faiths of others and how they relate to both the world and me personally - and how ideally they could be resolved into one harmonious union - now that would be a One True Faith - ah well, I can hope and dream.

TB3, No sin is worse than the other. They can all be forgiven equally. They aren't exactly commited the same but the bible doesen't say one sin is worse than the others.

Oh yeah I agree - that's what I said.

Oh yeah guys a thought - I find the fundalmentalist rantings of others makes me uncomfortable - I wonder if the liberal views of myself and others do the same to them?

[The BB of C offline]

I never really doubted you. It was a joke.
My dad tells me that there will be one ultimate faith one day. Unfortunately it won't be what you and I want and it will mark the beginning of the end.

[Kim offline]

'My God my God why have you forsaken me? Although I walk in the valley of death I fear no evil for you are at my side. Your rod and your staff my comfort and my hope.'

The first part is what Jesus said on the cross (Matt 27:46, Mark 15:34) and is also found in Psalm 22:1.
The second part is from Psalm 23.

People don't go to any heaven Anyway, Bible says they do not(some do, but this is much more complicated thing).

Actually, the righteous will enter into heaven and the rest (sinful) will be in h*ll for eternity...

Ephesians 5:5 (New International Version)
"For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

Also Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

And Revelation 21:27
"Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
This tells us that the ungodly will not enter into heaven."

[. offline]

The bible was written by Humans though.

PWNed

[Crazy_For_Christ. offline]

*deleted*

[The BB of C offline]

Wow, seriously, Daisymay, I don't even get offended that easily.

[. offline]

Hmm - 'thou shalt not kill' - yet God himself was quite the warmonger - I mean, didn't he order Joshua to slaughter all the Canaanites just for inhabiting a bit of real estate that God had picked out for the Israelites. He also athorised the murder of the civilian males, right down to the infant boys, and the taking of the woman and female children as slaves.

HOW DARE YOU! YOU KEEP OUT OF THIS CLUB! YOU ARE CALLING GOD A SINNER WHICH IS TERRIBLY WRONG! YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A DEBATE TO GET IT LOCKED! NOW QUIT!

Snde thepepsipiper, yes The Holy Bible was written by humans but, God talked through those humans and told them to write things down, And those humans are called Prophets.

Jesus was the only prophet. The people that first wrote it where his disciples AFTER Jesus had died. Plus the entire middle ages.

My point is, don't look for it with everything. It's not hard to decipher what God thinks is right from wrong. He's the ultimate form of pure goodness we cannot even begin to imagine. Sinners don't go to hell, God NEVER turns anyone away because he loves us all unconditionally. The only way you go to hell is if you reject God's love and his wanting to help you.

Daisy, sweetheart, in all seriousness your whole SINNER GO AWAY thing is becoming a borderline board-gimmick. Turn it down just a notch. A true christian wants to help people see the light, not turn them away because their different.

[Mewberries151]

Hmm - 'thou shalt not kill' - yet God himself was quite the warmonger - I mean, didn't he order Joshua to slaughter all the Canaanites just for inhabiting a bit of real estate that God had picked out for the Israelites. He also athorised the murder of the civilian males, right down to the infant boys, and the taking of the woman and female children as slaves.

[color=orange]HOW DARE YOU! YOU KEEP OUT OF THIS CLUB! YOU ARE CALLING GOD A SINNER WHICH IS TERRIBLY WRONG! YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A DEBATE TO GET IT LOCKED! NOW QUIT!

Daisymay, I am warning you. One more outburst like that and not only will this thread get locked but I will be reporting you to the Admin. TB3 is not the one being out of hand. You are and it had better be stopped immediately. Your lack of tolerance, consideration, and actions towards other people's opinions is rude and on all accounts exceedingly undesirable. I highly recommend you take a good look at your behavior on this forum and apologize to those who you have been exceedingly rude to.

One is entitled to free speech on this forum, and may I remind you that you do not make the rules here, nor do you have any power to influence anyone else's actions on this club, particularly like that. I am warning you that this behavior is out of hand and will be dealt with if it continues.

Again, if your behavior does not improve, Daisymay, your thread may not be the only thing locked. That is all.

[darktemplar offline]

Question 1 - Why are you happy that people do not go to heaven?

Because I don't need to be afraid what happens after my death

Question 2 - have you considered 'the dead' here might very well mean the spiritual dead - a limbo or purgatory of sorts?

No, because Bible says nothing about limbo and purgatory.

Question 3 - like ThePepsiPiper said, why do you trust the Bible as 'immaculate' - it has been edited and 'reinterpreted' as a tool of control throughout the centuries

We still have Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. And did anyone ever lost anything on obeying rules from Bible?

if you look at the portrayal of God in the Bible, he's frankly a jerk - how do you relate this to the vision we are asked to follow of an all-loving father figure?

Short question - why do you think he's a jerk?

Actually, the righteous will enter into heaven and the rest (sinful) will be in h*ll for eternity...

Don't say stuff just. Use Bible verses to prove it to me, because I don't believe you.

As this Revelation - this is the second death. So they die. the fiery lake of burning sulfur was considered as Gehenna, the place wastes and bodies of those, who didn't deserve a grave were thrown into.

Job 14:13
O that in She´ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Job wanted to put him into hell... Stupid guy

I mean, didn't he order Joshua to slaughter all the Canaanites just for inhabiting a bit of real estate that God had picked out for the Israelites.

And their religion was right? Killing children, magic, etc.
I will find you a verse on this if I find one


And please, if you want to show your opinion, I BEG YOU, say why!

[TB3]

Thanks Mew!

And please, if you want to show your opinion, I BEG YOU, say why!

I already said why, please read through my posts here both above and below and you might get an insight into my thought processes.

On that note, you and Daisymay etc. seem very close-minded - isn't it better to be able to question and doubt your faith - because doubt leads to self instrospection and self-discovery, which can strengthen you in your faith. My only example is that I've been questioning Christian dogma for 5 years, yet I still consider myself a Christian - I pray everynight, talk to God (the conversations are usually very one-sided though ) go to communion everyweek in university and enjoy religious debates with Kevin, the campus chaplain.

More often than not however, it is not my faith I question, but my own faith - i.e. my conviction, and again this comes down to my prime 'belief' - that religion is our personal quest for the divine, our journey towards God regardless of the religion we pay lip-service to - you might be Muslim, Aethiest, Jewish etc for all I care, yet I feel there would be a place for you in Heaven if in life you do your best to search out the divine, and to live your life as best you can, guided by your own convictions and conscience.

CS Lewis, the great author, summed up my feelings best in a subplot in 'The Last Battle' - the last book in the 'Narnia' series, as I quote here from Wikipedia:

[i]It is the story of the soldier Emeth (a vaguely Muslim figure, his name being Hebrew for 'kind'), from The Last Battle. Emeth is pure of heart (even though he has worshipped the “falseâ€

[darktemplar offline]

TB3, you're the one who says WHY. So this wasn't exactly pointed at you.

because doubt leads to self instrospection and self-discovery, which can strengthen you in your faith

I know, I use. I don't want to be fanatic. And I'm not close-minded - arguments put here just don't convince me.

you might be Muslim, Aethiest, Jewish etc for all I care, yet I feel there would be a place for you in Heaven if in life you do your best to search out the divine, and to live your life as best you can, guided by your own convictions and conscience

I thought justice requires to treat people equally...

salvation derives from the sincerity of the believer

If he could not have met the true religion(which must exist because of justice paradox quote up), he cannot be instantly "deleted", because that's too against justice.

"Good done in the devil's name is not the devil's work"

2 Corinthians 11:14
But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light.


And not that God was once vengeful and now is loving.

Malachi 3:6
For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

[TB3]

Okay then, so what's your interpretation of divine justice, God etc.

[DeadViolet offline]

I'm a christian! I go to a private lutheran school. We have to wear yucky uniforms! I wanna wear a sailor suit uniform so I can be cute!! Next year, I'll go to a christain school with no uniforms!!! Oh, did I mention I still get recess? Sucks for y'all non-belivers!!!!!!!!HAH!!!!

[The BB of C offline]

That's pretty much like every Christian school out there. I'm fairly confident that there is no such thing as a Christian private school with no uniforms.

[Crazy_For_Christ. offline]

Well, my Christian School started making us wear Uniforms this year.

And ThePepsiPiper, Jesus wasn't the only Prophet. Many people were prophets in the Old Testament, before Jesus came to earth.

[. offline]

Well, my Christian School started making us wear Uniforms this year.

And ThePepsiPiper, Jesus wasn't the only Prophet. Many people were prophets in the Old Testament, before Jesus came to earth.

Well... yeah but well... They didn't write the new testament was what I was trying to get at

[The BB of C offline]

Well, you failed!

[MY85 offline]

Well, my Christian School started making us wear Uniforms this year.

And ThePepsiPiper, Jesus wasn't the only Prophet. Many people were prophets in the Old Testament, before Jesus came to earth.

Well... yeah but well... They didn't write the new testament was what I was trying to get at

The information on the Bible has been carried on for years and it doesn't contain all the original content due to translation mistakes during cnturies when the information was passed to create the Bible.

BTW, I'm Catholic, but not that devote... guess I'll retake it a bit again when I get married, though.