The Golden Compass

[Reesane offline]

.....

How many times do I have to say this?

Religion=/= Morality

[Sithking Zero offline]

This child will begin to question his beliefs because of this book (we all know how impressionable child's minds are) and most likely go against all that is good and holy. Then we have a problem when that kid grows up and thinks it's OK to kill someone to get what you want. (google "The golden compass controversy, or if you've read the books, you know what I'm referring to)

I think that may be assuming that kids are incapable of believing that this is simply a fantasy tale. After all, I had no idea of religious implications until recently, when someone pointed it out to me.

[Mewberries151]

This child will begin to question his beliefs because of this book (we all know how impressionable child's minds are) and most likely go against all that is good and holy. Then we have a problem when that kid grows up and thinks it's OK to kill someone to get what you want. (google "The golden compass controversy, or if you've read the books, you know what I'm referring to)

I think that may be assuming that kids are incapable of believing that this is simply a fantasy tale. After all, I had no idea of religious implications until recently, when someone pointed it out to me.

Agreed.

And furthermore, the parents could, you know, actually be aware of what their child is doing, then sit their child down and tell them its wrong to hurt people.

Unheard of, I know, but honestly, this is the whole "Media vs. Parenting" debate all over again. Children can pick up things from the media, but they are far more likely to listen to their parents if their parents actually take the time to teach them about "right and wrong".

I can't stand it when they do this sort of thing to video games and doing it to books is just as ridiculous.

At any rate, regardless of what the author says, I feel the "Atheist" sub-text in these books is being made into something much bigger than it really is. Anyone whose actually read the books will understand what I mean. I get the feeling that Philip Pullman just likes to make waves (which is fine, he's the author...authors like doing that for their books so that more people pick them up ^^; ), but I think he's over-exagerrating a little. I always read it that God was being "used", by the corrupt church system, almost like a slave, and that "killing" him (noting of course that death is just another "new beginning" in these books), was the only way to free him of that.

I might be way off in my interpretation, but that's how I saw it.


And yeah, guys, try not to turn this into another "religious debate" thread. Thanks. ^^

[. offline]

This child will begin to question his beliefs because of this book (we all know how impressionable child's minds are) and most likely go against all that is good and holy. Then we have a problem when that kid grows up and thinks it's OK to kill someone to get what you want. (google "The golden compass controversy, or if you've read the books, you know what I'm referring to)

Yeah cause Lord knows society was just crippled when Kevin Smith's Dogma came out in theaters. <.<

[Sithking Zero offline]

This child will begin to question his beliefs because of this book (we all know how impressionable child's minds are) and most likely go against all that is good and holy. Then we have a problem when that kid grows up and thinks it's OK to kill someone to get what you want. (google "The golden compass controversy, or if you've read the books, you know what I'm referring to)

Yeah cause Lord knows society was just crippled when Kevin Smith's Dogma came out in theaters. <.<

And Harry Potter... that was the sign for us to forget all rules of common decency, wasn't it?

Or better, The Da Vinci Code. That pretty much decimated every church on hte planet.

[JesusFreak offline]

This child will begin to question his beliefs because of this book (we all know how impressionable child's minds are) and most likely go against all that is good and holy. Then we have a problem when that kid grows up and thinks it's OK to kill someone to get what you want. (google "The golden compass controversy, or if you've read the books, you know what I'm referring to)

I think that may be assuming that kids are incapable of believing that this is simply a fantasy tale. After all, I had no idea of religious implications until recently, when someone pointed it out to me.

Eh, Wolf in sheep's clothing kind of thing.

[. offline]

The Christian Collation here is sounding more and more like Jack Tompson's old saying "We don't want to play the games, we want them to be banned"

[JesusFreak offline]

Naw, that requires effort. There's a difference between attempting to alert the public about what's going on and attempting to ban things.

[DeadViolet offline]

I'm not going to see it, 'cause a friend of mine (She's Catholic), her dad says she can't got see it.
I don't think my parents'll let me see it, either.

[Exploder offline]

Or better, The Da Vinci Code. That pretty much decimated every church on hte planet.

Uh, no. Let me remind you that the Da Vinci Code is a work of FICTION. And if you would have attended church at all since 2004, you would know that it hasn't.

[Sithking Zero offline]

Or better, The Da Vinci Code. That pretty much decimated every church on hte planet.

Uh, no. Let me remind you that the Da Vinci Code is a work of FICTION. And if you would have attended church at all since 2004, you would know that it hasn't.

Okay, three things wrong with that statement.

First off, Yes, I know that the Da Vinci Code is a work of "FICTION." But then again, so is the Golden Compass.
Second off, that was SARCASM. Though perhaps the misunderstanding was my fault; it's not possible to hear tone and inflection over a text-based communications system, and I forgot this.
Third off, I have gone to church, and I'm not a moron.

Wait: a fourth one. Couldn't you use all these arguments to support the Golden Compass.

[JesusFreak offline]

GC is an allegory, and isn't outright spewing fase doctrine. HOWEVER, this is still about killing God. The way He is made out to be and killed might be half the reason for all this controversy.

[Saphire-089 offline]

Come on guys, one book or movie isn't going to change someone's personal beliefs! Besides, it's a GOOD thing to have somethin beyond the norm in a book, it opens a doorway for a whole new perspective on life, and it does not necesarrily mean that kids will turn to violence.

How incredibly boring would it be if we all agreed on the same thing, and never once tried to see from the eyes of another?

The Book was awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is too immature to appreciate the beauty of it.

[JesusFreak offline]

Come on guys, one book or movie isn't going to change someone's personal beliefs! Besides, it's a GOOD thing to have somethin beyond the norm in a book, it opens a doorway for a whole new perspective on life, and it does not necesarrily mean that kids will turn to violence.

How incredibly boring would it be if we all agreed on the same thing, and never once tried to see from the eyes of another?

The Book was awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is too immature to appreciate the beauty of it.

What if the person is an innocent little kid who hasn't formed a "personal belief" ?

[Reesane offline]

Come on guys, one book or movie isn't going to change someone's personal beliefs! Besides, it's a GOOD thing to have somethin beyond the norm in a book, it opens a doorway for a whole new perspective on life, and it does not necesarrily mean that kids will turn to violence.

How incredibly boring would it be if we all agreed on the same thing, and never once tried to see from the eyes of another?

The Book was awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is too immature to appreciate the beauty of it.

What if the person is an innocent little kid who hasn't formed a "personal belief" ?

First, no-one is truly innocent. (Or they're not human, take your pick.)

Second, whats the big deal with someone forming a personal belief that contradicts yours? Why make a big deal about someone who decides to think for themselves and actually consider what the implications of what belief is?

And lasts but not least, a narrow world view makes for a very limited life. Open mindedness is the only way to understand the world, why it works, and how it works. If we closes ourselves off to ideas because they offend one group of people, it's an act that goes against a fundamental part of human nature.



.....



Now, can we actually discuss the book?

[Sithking Zero offline]

Agreed.

I like the way that Pullman manages to make the characters... believable. You know, no superheroic feats, no powers... just kids thrust into a huge conflict that encompasses the entirity of the dimensional multiverse.

[adrimarie offline]

As a Catholic devout myself, I guess my faith is strong enough (if not too strong) to have a work of fiction to actually affect or disrupt my beliefs.

In other words, I've read the trilogy (my sister actually owns them) years ago... I'm a bookworm myself and I always read the books with an open mind regardless of its message. In this case, the "His Dark Materials" trilogy took me to a different world where everything is different from the norm. I admit, I enjoyed reading them and it was easy for me to ignore all these "atheist" implications and calling the entire trilogy a work of fiction.

My parents didn't mind having my sister reading those books. I mean my dad got Da Vinci Code novel for his birthday, and despite that it's anti-Christian (or rather anti-Catholic for that matter), he actually enjoyed the novel.

I guess it all depends on how a Christian person looks in to his/her faith and how "media and pop culture" could actually affect his/her beliefs. As for me I can easily manage separating my own faith from any work of fiction that may go against my own faith (just like how we should always separate religion from the state (politics)). But bottom line is that I enjoyed the books. Would it be a sin for me to enjoy a work of fiction despite that it's against my religious beliefs?

I'm not really looking forward to seeing the movie though... I would see the movie if I haven't read the book yet. I'm backwards like that--- if I saw the movie first, I'd go to the bookstore and buy the book. But if I read the book and then a movie based off it is released, I wouldn't even bother. x.x

[Malkmusian offline]

As a Catholic devout myself, I guess my faith is strong enough (if not too strong) to have a work of fiction to actually affect or disrupt my beliefs.

In other words, I've read the trilogy (my sister actually owns them) years ago... I'm a bookworm myself and I always read the books with an open mind regardless of its message. In this case, the "His Dark Materials" trilogy took me to a different world where everything is different from the norm. I admit, I enjoyed reading them and it was easy for me to ignore all these "atheist" implications and calling the entire trilogy a work of fiction.

My parents didn't mind having my sister reading those books. I mean my dad got Da Vinci Code novel for his birthday, and despite that it's anti-Christian (or rather anti-Catholic for that matter), he actually enjoyed the novel.

I guess it all depends on how a Christian person looks in to his/her faith and how "media and pop culture" could actually affect his/her beliefs. As for me I can easily manage separating my own faith from any work of fiction that may go against my own faith (just like how we should always separate religion from the state (politics)). But bottom line is that I enjoyed the books. Would it be a sin for me to enjoy a work of fiction despite that it's against my religious beliefs?

I'm not really looking forward to seeing the movie though... I would see the movie if I haven't read the book yet. I'm backwards like that--- if I saw the movie first, I'd go to the bookstore and buy the book. But if I read the book and then a movie based off it is released, I wouldn't even bother. x.x

The Da Vinci Code is not anti-Christian. It just says that Opus Dei is trying to protect the body of Mary, buried underneath the Louvre in Paris.

Trust me. I've seen the movie.

[Sithking Zero offline]

The Da Vinci Code is not anti-Christian. It just says that Opus Dei is trying to protect the body of Mary, buried underneath the Louvre in Paris.

Trust me. I've seen the movie.

No, that's not right. The Da Vinci code is about the Priory of Sion protecting the body of Mary. Opus Dei are the ones trying to destroy the body.

And secondly, we're talking about the book now.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

O RLY? *eyes*

I saw the movie last night, and believe it or not, I didn't care if it had any mention of christianity or atheism. I found this really cool ability I have to watch a movie without a bias.

But yes, if you look really hard, have a lot of time, and want to cause up a stir, it's a movie about rebelling against something you don't want to get into. Based on rebelling against something you don't want to get into. But in my opinion, at a glance, That person is just someone who's grumpy they're too old to watch a kid's movie. Aww, poor little teenies...

And I wish I had an outer Daemon! Aww...

And the obligatory question, the graphics were awesome. If you like shiny fractals, there were lots of them. And it was a nice touch with the night scenes as well.

However, there wer a LOT of plotholes in the story. I suspect the movie was geared more towards people who read the books.

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

I want to see it really really bad... It looks Sooooooooooooooooooo awesome. There are so many symbolisms in the books not only religous based but there are others.... I love it I have read all of the books and I have one on book on tape.... And I love the actors and actresses that they picked for the movie like Liam Neeson. Awesome simply awesome.

[Carth]

I'm beginning to read the first book. It really is a very intriguing story- it's giving lots of questions right off the bat and not answering them, a good tactic for pulling in attention. However, I'll have to read the rest to really form my opinion on whether it's "evil" or not.

And let's not bring the Da Vinci code into this. Both of those things are FICTION, geez. >.>

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

I agree Carth, but I know you will really enjoy it. The second one is not as good as the first just as a warning. But you are right it is up to each individual to form their own opinion on if it is a dark evil story or not. Just like some people believe that Harry Potter is evil. The Golden Compass is intriging and it has some cool representations and sybolisms and ideas. It also brings up some facinating ideas like the aletiometer (I don't know if that is spelled properly) think if there was actually a device that could do that, if there was I would want one. I would also like that subtle knife, however I would not want to lose any fingers. Subtle Kinfe is the second book in the trilogy.

[JesusFreak offline]

Come on guys, one book or movie isn't going to change someone's personal beliefs! Besides, it's a GOOD thing to have somethin beyond the norm in a book, it opens a doorway for a whole new perspective on life, and it does not necesarrily mean that kids will turn to violence.

How incredibly boring would it be if we all agreed on the same thing, and never once tried to see from the eyes of another?

The Book was awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is too immature to appreciate the beauty of it.

What if the person is an innocent little kid who hasn't formed a "personal belief" ?

First, no-one is truly innocent. (Or they're not human, take your pick.)

Second, whats the big deal with someone forming a personal belief that contradicts yours? Why make a big deal about someone who decides to think for themselves and actually consider what the implications of what belief is?

And lasts but not least, a narrow world view makes for a very limited life. Open mindedness is the only way to understand the world, why it works, and how it works. If we closes ourselves off to ideas because they offend one group of people, it's an act that goes against a fundamental part of human nature.

1. Ehm, I thought people would understand when I said "innocent" I meant a clean slate when it comes to views.

2. I should be clearer when I post. I meant beliefs about other things than God, like the example Colonel Catastrophe came up with.

3. Open-mindedness? Can you please define exactly what you mean by that?

[. offline]

GC is an allegory, and isn't outright spewing fase doctrine. HOWEVER, this is still about killing God. The way He is made out to be and killed might be half the reason for all this controversy.

But it's an alternate earth. Alternate Earth = Alternate God. Der.

Just like how the Marvel and DC universe have there own Gods as well.... F' it, Dr. Strange is practically spitting in God's eye.