Christians

[CotS offline]

True, The Bible was written by humans, but part of it was just accounts of what Jesus did in his travels, or Lessons learned by people throughout history.
The rest was really, what God has told his closest followers. so true, they were humans, but they were the closest one can come to being what God intended us to be. Thus they are quite trusworthy.

[Jeremified offline]

Here's a Christian signature. Free for the taking.


http://i2.tinypic.com/4tid91d.png

[Tangent128 offline]

So the kindest soul would still be banished to the depths of Hell. mmmm yeah that makes so much sense....

Unfortunately, even the kindest people are not perfect, so yes. In God's eyes, we are are all equally vile. The essence of the Gospel ("Good News") is that God is merciful to those who accept salvation.

Thus, true Christians should also be merciful to others, not judgemental. Needless to say, we have a lot of failings in that field.

[JesusFreak offline]

Yes, you can be a judge to a point. But, just because someone can view themself as part of a Religion, unless that person can obey the rules of that Religion, they cannot be pert of it. For example, Just becuase I say that I have a million bucks, does that mean that I do? Unless I actually have that money in the bank, or in my pocket I don't have it.

please don't call me that, it sounds quite dissrespectful
You bring up a very good point here, we should be able to tell right from wrong on our own. But because we are human, we can't be perfect, or always know the right way to go. Thus, God gave us the Bible, that way it will help us learn the right way to go.
Imagine this, When you were a baby, did you know that if you touched a hot pan it would burn? No, you had to either touch it yourself to find out, or have your parents tell you repeatedly not to touch it.
Also, Heaven, and Hell, are the Ultamate reward, and punishment. those who obey the rules God has set out for us, get the reward of going to Heaven, those who dissobey, get the punishment of going to Hell (along with the Devil, and all of his other followers). For every action, there is either a reward, or a punishment. Just like now, if you don't do your homework, you get an F (I think, I've never been to schoo so I'm going by what I've heard) but if you do it, you get a passing grade (if you do it right that is)

please correct me if I'm wrong anywere in this post.

God gave us Jesus, who did some things and preached his stuff... then he left and his disciples hammered out the bible. And thats my other gripe right there, it's a book written by man. Disciples? sure but they where still, only human. If you believe to be better off financially better off then what you are, then you are. It's like saying your attractive, ect.

Well, say you write a novel. Did the pen write it or did you? You did, of course. See, the Bible was written by God. He didn't reach out in a Monty Python esque rrival and write the whole thing on the ground. He used Man to write it.

[. offline]

Yes, you can be a judge to a point. But, just because someone can view themself as part of a Religion, unless that person can obey the rules of that Religion, they cannot be pert of it. For example, Just becuase I say that I have a million bucks, does that mean that I do? Unless I actually have that money in the bank, or in my pocket I don't have it.

please don't call me that, it sounds quite dissrespectful
You bring up a very good point here, we should be able to tell right from wrong on our own. But because we are human, we can't be perfect, or always know the right way to go. Thus, God gave us the Bible, that way it will help us learn the right way to go.
Imagine this, When you were a baby, did you know that if you touched a hot pan it would burn? No, you had to either touch it yourself to find out, or have your parents tell you repeatedly not to touch it.
Also, Heaven, and Hell, are the Ultamate reward, and punishment. those who obey the rules God has set out for us, get the reward of going to Heaven, those who dissobey, get the punishment of going to Hell (along with the Devil, and all of his other followers). For every action, there is either a reward, or a punishment. Just like now, if you don't do your homework, you get an F (I think, I've never been to schoo so I'm going by what I've heard) but if you do it, you get a passing grade (if you do it right that is)

please correct me if I'm wrong anywere in this post.

God gave us Jesus, who did some things and preached his stuff... then he left and his disciples hammered out the bible. And thats my other gripe right there, it's a book written by man. Disciples? sure but they where still, only human. If you believe to be better off financially better off then what you are, then you are. It's like saying your attractive, ect.

Well, say you write a novel. Did the pen write it or did you? You did, of course. See, the Bible was written by God. He didn't reach out in a Monty Python esque rrival and write the whole thing on the ground. He used Man to write it.

Say the pen leaks and leaves an ink blot on the page. Did I do that or the pen?

[Tangent128 offline]

Say the pen leaks and leaves an ink blot on the page. Did I do that or the pen?

The pen did. You reach for the bottle of White-Out and fix it.

[DeadViolet offline]

I'm a Christian. I'm a Combo of Baptist/Methodist, and to to Catholic School~
Yet, I'm a big fanatic of Ghosts, Paganism, Vampires, Mythology, ect.

[Lyoko Wario offline]

Well, say you write a novel. Did the pen write it or did you? You did, of course. See, the Bible was written by God. He didn't reach out in a Monty Python esque rrival and write the whole thing on the ground. He used Man to write it.

...but how do you know?

[CotS offline]

That my friend, is where you have to rely of Faith.

[. offline]

But what feels more comfortable, putting faith in what someone has all ready thought or putting faith into the dots you've connected for yourself.

mmm theres a novel, Dr. No by Ian Flemming. Bond is going threw a sick obstacle course and all the while mentally finds himself confronting his spirituality. He concludes that while he is unsure of how everything works, he feels strongly that there must be a place for his friend that Dr. No killed and another place for the evil Dr. No.

And he came to this on his own, on his own terms, with his own mind.

See I'm not just some agnostic schmuck, I've thought, self-debating, and constantly evolve what I believe in. All threw it I've come to one very clear conclusion that there is SOMETHING. Some creator, some force.

And hell I don't know. When it comes to religion it's easy to lose yourself to it. Lose your power to think for yourself. Are you insignificant compared to the ultimate power? Dust beneath his feet? Certainly. But your are still dust. Against my creator, as onesided as it is I am still me. Not that normally one would be against the creator. Good is Good.

meh, it's delicate and deep.

[JesusFreak offline]

When it comes to religion it's easy to lose yourself to it. Lose your power to think for yourself. Are you insignificant compared to the ultimate power? Dust beneath his feet? Certainly. But your are still dust. Against my creator, as onesided as it is I am still me. Not that normally one would be against the creator. Good is Good. meh, it's delicate and deep.

PepsiPiper, accepting Christ Doesn't mean losing your individuality. Before I was saved, I was addicted to Star Wars. After I was saved, I still love Star Wars, But My priorities have changed.

[Reesane offline]

I’m an Atheist, though I prefer to be called a Secral Humanitarian. In other words, I believe that, as an empathetic and rational human being, I know right from wrong without needing to be told. I also do not believe in an after life. Once your dead, your dead. Your life’s objective should be to improve the world, enjoy your life, and help other people enjoy theirs.

I find that religion is a pricely subject, mainly because people can become so fanaticly obsessed with it that they lose sight of reality. I don’t mind other people having faith, but I dislike it when they try to force it on me.

[. offline]

When it comes to religion it's easy to lose yourself to it. Lose your power to think for yourself. Are you insignificant compared to the ultimate power? Dust beneath his feet? Certainly. But your are still dust. Against my creator, as onesided as it is I am still me. Not that normally one would be against the creator. Good is Good. meh, it's delicate and deep.

PepsiPiper, accepting Christ Doesn't mean losing your individuality. Before I was saved, I was addicted to Star Wars. After I was saved, I still love Star Wars, But My priorities have changed.

I was saying in broad over view of all religions. If I was say to join islam, paganism, christianianity, satanism blah blah blah I would lose a part of me because I would no longer be able to question my religion which is largely who I am.

[CotS offline]

But what feels more comfortable, putting faith in what someone has all ready thought or putting faith into the dots you've connected for yourself.

mmm theres a novel, Dr. No by Ian Flemming. Bond is going threw a sick obstacle course and all the while mentally finds himself confronting his spirituality. He concludes that while he is unsure of how everything works, he feels strongly that there must be a place for his friend that Dr. No killed and another place for the evil Dr. No.

And he came to this on his own, on his own terms, with his own mind.

See I'm not just some agnostic schmuck, I've thought, self-debating, and constantly evolve what I believe in. All threw it I've come to one very clear conclusion that there is SOMETHING. Some creator, some force.

And hell I don't know. When it comes to religion it's easy to lose yourself to it. Lose your power to think for yourself. Are you insignificant compared to the ultimate power? Dust beneath his feet? Certainly. But your are still dust. Against my creator, as onesided as it is I am still me. Not that normally one would be against the creator. Good is Good.

meh, it's delicate and deep.

lol, looks like you've done quite a similar thing to what I have.
I say I am a christian yes, but I don't really belong to any denomination. I have read the Bible, and I pray, all that stuf, but I don't want to be like some people I've met.

I was thinking the other day and I came up with this, often the Bible talks about us being sheep, and God is the Shepherd, and we are supposed to follow Him. But I've met too many people that are following a rope tied to God, instead of following God Himself, and it is all to easy for the Enemy to cut the rope, and lead them astray, and they follow their leaders blindly, doing whatever they say, regarless of if it's right, or wrong. so I have chosen to folow God with my eyes, and not a rope. I use my brain to distinguish between Gods path, and the path of the Enenemy

[ConcreteAngel offline]

If you are Christian you'd stand up for the Trinity. I'm just saying. Please don't fight on here too. I'm glad people are talking on here. I didn't think anyone but a few people would talk really civilized and not fight on here don't take it personally. I can't wait till church tomarrow! It's gonna be fun. MegaJesusMan, JesusFreak, and I go to a Four Square Church. Liberty, we think it's awesome.

What is your favorite verse from the bible?

Mine is Ephesians 2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

[TB3]

Hmm - just a warning guys - you're more than welcome to discuss your religion or your personal interpretations of faith/spirituality etc, but remember where to draw the line.

Debate is ok - arguing and flaming over religion/faith, the most personal and individualistic subject of all, is not OK, and if this ever veers towards that, it's gonna be locked sharpish.

For the record, I'm Christian (Church of Wales specifically - Father, Son and Holy Ghost - Tad, Mab ar' Ysbryd Glan), but I still consider myself open-minded enough to question to whys-and-hows of my faith and to be open enough to consider the spiritual opinions and thoughts of others - my personal relationship with God is important to me, but it's a private relationship between myself and the Almighty power, whatever name that power may take - God, Yahweh, Allah etc. People however who openly proclaim their faiths and invite comment about it I've always felt a bit uncomfortable about - it always feels a bit Evangelistic to me.

So, just so you guys know, that's how I stand on this - and with my piece said I'm gonna step back somewhat and let this thread run it's course - but again, if it veers out of control or if people start getting preachy (regardless of the doctrine they're preaching) I (or another member of staff) will take action.

PS: You may want to reconsider the thread title - by itself 'Christians' sounds exclusionary and even somewhat agressive - if you'd like to debate your faith, my thought is to invite everyone to the table, and not sound like you only want to talk about it with like-minded people/souls.

Cheers

[ConcreteAngel offline]

Ok, we won't fight I just don't want any fights on this either. I just want it to be a free discussion about religion.

[Jeremified offline]

Mind me asking why mpc knocked misha-san out of the Holy Square?

[ConcreteAngel offline]

Hey she told me to take off the holy-4 square and put the new one on. I personally like the holy-4 square.

[DeadViolet offline]

Mind me asking why mpc knocked misha-san out of the Holy Square?

I figured they all go to the same Church, I don't belong in that. ^^;
Plus, I don't wanna take up to much room.......

[ConcreteAngel offline]

Hey it's fine. I don't mind.

[JesusFreak offline]

It's Your Choice Misha-san. For a second, I thought you and mpc were fighting!

[Lyoko Wario offline]

Unfortunately, even the kindest people are not perfect, so yes. In God's eyes, we are are all equally vile. The essence of the Gospel ("Good News") is that God is merciful to those who accept salvation.

I know this much: I did not crucify, offend, attack, or otherwise hurt Jesus. I was not alive during the time when he lived and thus it is totally impossible for me, or anyone else we know, to be guilty or in any way responsible for a crime a few cruel people commited around two thousand years ago. if we, mere humans, know it's wrong to punish a kid because their parents committed a cruel act before the kid was born, shouldn't we assume that God knows at least as much as we do about the nature of justice? In case there really is a God, I will take his word about him being the ultimate manifestation of goodness and assume that I will not be punished for a bad act I did not commit nor would have committed even if I had the chance.

To me, it seems that, even assuming that God is as real as you or me, the people who penned down the Bible changed a couple of things here and there to make themselves seem better or for other political purposes, since, of course, they had an awful lot of influence back then and they still do now. I am not a religious person, I have no plans of fully converting to Christianity or any other religion, and if it turns out that I will meet a God when I die, I am not and will not be afraid. I trust myself, and I would trust in such a God, and I trust that justice will triumph over injustice.

So, if God is real, and Jesus really was the son of God, and his death really did somehow result in the salvation of all mankind at that very moment from a (rightfully) angry god, then I can hardly argue that Jesus is responsible for my being alive right now. But I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry because I committed no crime against God or anyone else, and I won't pretend that I am. That would be rather hypocritical on my part.

[Tangent128 offline]

I know this much: I did not crucify, offend, attack, or otherwise hurt Jesus. I was not alive during the time when he lived and thus it is totally impossible for me, or anyone else we know, to be guilty or in any way responsible for a crime a few cruel people commited around two thousand years ago.
...
I'm not sorry because I committed no crime against God or anyone else, and I won't pretend that I am.

Any sin counts as a crime against God; I don't know you personally, but if you're anything like the people I know, (and me, for that matter) you've told lies (maybe no big ones, but any untruth counts), held grudges, envied somebody, been disrespectful to authority, been unloving towards anyone...

I hate to sound harsh, but sin is a (negative) part of being human.

[Lola offline]

well, yeah. But doesn't everyone do that? God will still forgive you if you ask for it though.