S4 Episode 9: I'd Rather Not Talk About It

[MY85 offline]

This episode is airing... discuss on this thread and vote on the poll after you've watched it.

Someone move this to ED, please.

[Aurabolt offline]

Ok....I can deal with Jeremie's irritating attitude because he does have a point and since he's the coordinator of the warriors, he doesn't respond to heavy physical training like they have to.....what I DO have a problem with is Jim.

1) No one gets good by working them to death, and the boot camp mentality is seriously flawed.

2) He's been pulling stuff like this all season so far, and it's really pissing me off right now.

3) He doesn't realize simple smarts to be advantageous. If anyone in this series was more pathetic than him when it comes to smarts(Except for Odd and Ulrich.), I'd be impressed. Also; stop lying to the kids. It isn't helping, and you really know nothing. Stop with the high horse arrogance.

4/10.

Edit: God, he doesn't have to do this. There's no point; He clearly has the physical strength. We've seen it all this season, especially during "Maiden Voyage." Gah!

[Taelia offline]

I agree! This drill instructor attitude of Jim's has got to stop! I really liked it far better, FAR better, when he showed love and kindness, not a bad attitude. This attitude is just as bad as how he was in Season 1! Now the writers are REALLY making me mad! Jim is NOT a very good trainer, let alone a good teacher. He wears the children out till their bodies are sore!

2/10!!

This episode was the worst of the season!

[Writing_Addict offline]

Well first of all, I was really confused. I thought the Key tripping thing disapeared, I hope the forest thing was the Replika, I didn't see any digital sea action.

I'm sorry, but I rated it a six. If I had to rate the humor, I'd give a 9. ^^;

(Honestly, this is an episode I'd rather not talk about)

[MY85 offline]

I'd give a proper review later, but I can sum things up for this episode in a few words: f*cking piece of sh*t.

I felt like I wasted my time watching this episode. Maybe I'm pissed off with my back pain I'm suffering as we speak. But this episode was poorly delivered, if anything.

[Taelia offline]

I am VERY disappointed at the writers right now. Not at David Gasman (though all the yelling and meanie attitude he puts into his character's voice really needs to chill), just the writers. I could write MUCH better than this! Meanie Jimbo, a no-no!

[Mewberries151]

I am VERY disappointed at the writers right now. Not at David Gasman (though all the yelling and meanie attitude he puts into his character's voice really needs to chill), just the writers. I could write MUCH better than this! Meanie Jimbo, a no-no!

Taelia...okay...we get it.

Actually, I thought Jim was rather friendly and brave towards the end of the episode...I'm actually highly surprised you didn't like it...

Oh well. ^^;

Full review in a moment, after I've collected my thoughts. XD

[Reploid CB]

Okay well first of all, I have to say: That's how training works xD; If your muscles aren't burning at the end, then you haven't done a darn thing. It might be considered cruel and insensitive, but look at how it helped them in the end xD

Anyway, personally I liked this episode. I didn't stop laughing the whole time, and there were a number of good expressions and lines (coulda done without half the talk of Jeremie and Jim in the cave-thing, although the overall sentiment of the moment was nice. Just without the caribou...yeah.)

Not to mention I loved Aelita's triumphant "Yes~!" gesture when she hit the tower Not to mention Odd riding the Manta again, and the little altercation between Yumi and William at the end.

Yeah, it wasn't the best episode so far, but it could still be enjoyable.

[MY85 offline]

I would like to watch this episode again, regardless of what I think about it right now. Jim and Jeremie both annoyed me to no end in IRNTAI.

A few episodes ago, they wasted the chance of building up a feud between Odd and Ulrich. On Replika, they wasted not only a chance of seeing Herve and Nicolas visiting the factory again, but they also wasted the chance of building up a Jeremie-Odd feud.

Not only I'm pissed with the way the episode was delivered, but they're wasting chances to build something more interesting.

[Aurabolt offline]

Not to mention that training doesn't work that way. One day do not incredible soldiers make. It drains the victims (and yes, VICTIMS) physical and mental reserves and treats them psychologically downtrodden. It's just not the way it should be done.

Now, pushing them to succeed, along some encouragement that doesn't require any raising of voices or insults is effective.

[Mewberries151]

Not to mention that training doesn't work that way. One day do not incredible soldiers make. It drains the victims (and yes, VICTIMS) physical and mental reserves and treats them psychologically downtrodden. It's just not the way it should be done.

Now, pushing them to succeed, along some encouragement that doesn't require any raising of voices or insults is effective.

Aurabolt...you've never taken soccer camp...have you? ^^;

Believe me...training can and does work that way. There are many different ways to approach training, and there's really no right way (with the exception of whipping...that'd be the wrong way...but I digress ; ).

Jim's of military background (sort of ) so he's going to train them in the way he was trained...and believe me...that's a very friendly version of the way the military trains you, if I am not mistaken. ^^

[Ghost Guest offline]

Besides, it's just a cartoon... and those scenes weren't meant to be taken seriously. If anything, they were meant to be funny. People should really give Jim a break. How did he break his leg? Protecting Jeremie... he also risked his life at the end of the episode. If that doesn't show that he's a good guy I don't know what will.
Meh... I liked the episode.

[MY85 offline]

Jim's of military background (sort of ) so he's going to train them in the way he was trained...and believe me...that's a very friendly version of the way the military trains you, if I am not mistaken. ^^

I bet he got fired or kicked out after one year or something. That doesn't mean Jim totally sucks at training people, but I bet he's not good enough for Military, FBI or Secret Services standards.


Hey Mewberries, could you give me a recap (not long) of what happened at the episode? Please, if possible?

[Tangent128 offline]

...I liked the episode.

This episode showcases a lot of good BG work. I'm impressed by the 2D scenes.
The in-Lyoko stuff is admittingly rather dull, though. Is there a reason XANA's reattacking the Core? Jeremie should have been able to recreate Lyoko easily enough, so why the effort? Maybe it would take the Skid with it, which seems to take longer to build, but it's as though some entity in control of their reality just said, "For this episode, let's split up the Lyoko warriors and have stuff going on in the Forest and Sector 5." Oh...

Still, a solid 9/10. Jim was portrayed rather nicely, I thought, if perhaps a little... over excited. It's not often that students ask him for drill sessions, you know.

[MewmiC offline]

Well first of all, I was really confused. I thought the Key tripping thing disapeared

For the countdown yes, but apparently not for getting to the heart of Lyoko, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Speaking of core of Lyoko, why this plot again? It was good in the third season, but I'd think XANA would have learned by now that four Manta's isn't gonna cut it and they can just recreate it anyway.. The fight between Yumi and William was decent but I think Will was devirtualized a little to easily, when Yumi fought him in 'Opening Act' he was hit with both fans in the back and was still going, in this he got hit by one and was beaten. His devirtualization has also gotten smokier .

As for the training, at the beginning I was wondering if one of them was going to go 'You do this instead of standing there with your stopwatch, then tell us how you feel' but I suppose Jim making Jeremie work with the others helped their too. Jim's training... well I had a PE teacher that was just as strict and that kinda brought back some memories when she made my class run the parameter of the school three times and additional laps around the soccer field, mile run (which turned out to be more than a mile). Not fun but that's how it works.

The training itself was pretty good and Jeremie and Jim bonding was very nice as well, they've come to understand and respect each other a little more (though I doubt Jim will let Jeremie keep skipping gym ). Jim's little story was good, but the pictures that followed were the best . My only complaint is that I'd think Odd would be able to keep up with Ulrich and Yumi, guess he's more of a sprinter than a distance runner.

I'm giving this episode a 9/10. The character work was good and Jim got almost as much development as he did in 'Code: Earth'/'False Start'.

[Mewberries151]

*hums "Be A Man" from Mulan*

...I swear that'll be the first CL AMV I make...using clips from this episode (and a couple others).

Kind of sums this episode up in a nutshell. XD


Ummm, anyway, wow, not a whole lot plot extension-wise but...I kind of liked the humor of this episode.

Although it is kind of bad when one spends the first half of the episode crooning at the screen along the lines of, "Yessss....make Jeremie sssuffferrrr Jim...yesssss" O_O;


*snickers*...Then again, I've also been on a rampant HP craze, so I'm going to blame that. X)

So yeah, really, not a bad episode. but the humor and dialogue was great. And we finally get some insight into Jim's past...who'd have thought?

Incidentally, the entire "flashback" montage and its accompanying illustrations were hilarious. Yay for chibi/super-deformed style!

The attack wasn't all that "involved" or "complex"...but it kind of made me feel nostalgic. ^^ It's like...a return to classic XANA animal possession. Only with a boar this time. *snerk*

Anyway, moving on, yay for the kids getting better at fighting and running and stuff...and a slight poo (Caribou poo, incidently) on Jeremie for being a bit of a "stubborn fool" about statistics, his stop watch, and the fact that he really shouldn't be nit-picking four people who could more or less kick his tush if they wanted. xD Although I do give him a massive amount of kudos for his gutsy "distract the pig" tactic.

*sniffs* And was that a hint of Y/U in this episode? ...Maybe it was just the peppermint... X)

Okay, Lyoko battle. Wow, Yumi vs. William rematch for the win! (And William's learned more words! xD ). Yumi made me super happy in this episode with her Lyoko battling. Odd was pretty good too, although I got distracted by his "boyfriend" line...which was hilarious. (To which Yumi made a pretty decent comeback too *giggles* ).

Poor Ulrich...bumped out early again. Ah well...can't win every day.

...And did Aelita totally freeze that Krabe? O.o;

Anyway, I really think this episode deserves more credit than it's being given. I personally give it an 8.9...B+ ^^

Well first of all, I was really confused. I thought the Key tripping thing disapeared, I hope the forest thing was the Replika, I didn't see any digital sea action.

That's only in the "Core Zone" (the large maze-like area they have to get to before they reach the Celestial Dome). The Key Yumi triggers in this episode is where the actual "Heart" of Lyoko is. I'm assuming that Key was left there as a sort of failsafe, perhaps so that William is forced to use his Manta in able to even get up to the core (assuming that the Key likely doesn't work for him) which puts him at a slight disadvantage. (IE. he has no ground to land on if he somehow falls...they do.).

This episode showcases a lot of good BG work. I'm impressed by the 2D scenes.

That's an excellent observation! The backgrounds really were lush and well-detailed in this episode...lots of lovely forest scenery. ^.^

Is there a reason XANA's reattacking the Core? Jeremie should have been able to recreate Lyoko easily enough, so why the effort? Maybe it would take the Skid with it, which seems to take longer to build, but it's as though some entity in control of their reality just said, "For this episode, let's split up the Lyoko warriors and have stuff going on in the Forest and Sector 5." Oh...

I believe you're on the right track with the "Destroying Lyoko destroys Skid and everything else and sets them back...very very far." ^^; That would be my guess.

As for the "let's split them up" thing...isn't that one of XANA's preferred tactics? Divide and Conquer. ^^

The "Disappearing Tower" act was a slight cheat but...again, favorite tactic, particularly when he's attacking the core it seems. It would have been kind of funny to see one of the Krabes pull the same "bump into the tower" routine that one Kankrelat pulled but...ah well.

[Aurabolt offline]

And apparently Mew, and I mean no offense, you have never seen a Boot Camp training in action. I have. Yelling, Screaming, physical pain, psychological anguish, and more Insults than any one person deserves, even IF they are trying their hardest.

Jim was doing a very small, very less intensive version of that, and I still don't condone it.

Anyway, moving on, yay for the kids getting better at fighting and running and stuff...and a slight poo (Caribou poo, incidently) on Jeremie for being a bit of a "stubborn fool" about statistics, his stop watch, and the fact that he really shouldn't be nit-picking four people who could more or less kick his tush if they wanted.

Yes, Odd, Ulrich, and Yumi, sure. But I don't think Aelita could, would EVER want to, and would probably feel REALLY bad about hurting him.

Also, I find that the Core Zone hasn't been touched lately. I thought the Skid was the major target. After all, William has some major tactical disadvantages if he think that what he sent could have actually destroyed the core. Creepers, with higher damage potential, were the best choice, as "Final Round" proved.

[Taelia offline]

I agree with you, Aurabolt. I never took regular PE for the same reasons. I don't wanna be insulted or criticized if I fall off of something, or something like that.

[Mewberries151]

And apparently Mew, and I mean no offense, you have never seen a Boot Camp training in action. I have. Yelling, Screaming, physical pain, psychological anguish, and more Insults than any one person deserves, even IF they are trying their hardest.

Jim was doing a very small, very less intensive version of that, and I still don't condone it.

Oh believe, me, I have. ^^; Granted that was on television and may or may not have been exaggerated but I've also had relatives who have served in the force tell me exactly what their training was like.

And no offense, but, regardless of whether or not you "condone it", you cannot deny that it does work and is a very common form of training.

The fact that Jim was doing a less intensive version of it is to his credit I think. He realises that they're kids and didn't go full out "drill sargeant" on them.

Anyway, moving on, yay for the kids getting better at fighting and running and stuff...and a slight poo (Caribou poo, incidently) on Jeremie for being a bit of a "stubborn fool" about statistics, his stop watch, and the fact that he really shouldn't be nit-picking four people who could more or less kick his tush if they wanted.

Yes, Odd, Ulrich, and Yumi, sure. But I don't think Aelita could, would EVER want to, and would probably feel REALLY bad about hurting him.p

*sigh* I was joking, you realize? Hence the emoticon...which you conveniently didn't include in the quote. ^^;

Also, I find that the Core Zone hasn't been touched lately. I thought the Skid was the major target. After all, William has some major tactical disadvantages if he think that what he sent could have actually destroyed the core. Creepers, with higher damage potential, were the best choice, as "Final Round" proved.

I disagree. Yes, the Skid is the major target, but destroying Lyoko and Sector 5 means that the Skid is destroyed as well...so in a sense that was still the general target.

I believe what XANA was trying to do was give William a slight advantage in terms of maneuverability. The hanger in which the Skid is kept is small and cramped and doesn't give William a lot of room to battle nor utilize his Manta's abilities in. The Heart zone does.

Also, I disagree that Creepers are more powerful than Mantas. In "Final Round" he had at least 6-10 Creepers all firing at the same time (with his own power included amongst the shots). The Mantas have been shown to be able to take down the shields of their own power with just a few shots each and with their numbers in the 3s or 4s at the very most.

[Aurabolt offline]

Yet, Mantas have never been able to take down a Lyoko Warrior in two shots. Only Creepers have done that. I admit that attacking the core would have destroyed the Skid, but what's the point? Jeremie most likely has the files to re-create Lyoko and the Skid backed up, the former thanks to Mr. Hopper.

Sorry. Didn't notice the emoticon. My bad.

And about the training....I will admit that it does get something done, but that it leaves scars. Physical and Emotional scars which would drive anyone to yell back, and I wouldn't blame them. Also, it wasn't right for Jeremie; Jim, as a teacher and instructor, should have realized that certain forms of physical training do not work with certain people. He could've made Jeremie run or something, or something less intensive. A good trainer knows the limits of the people who train under them. Common fact.

*Feels like we're Wright and Edgeworth.*

[Mewberries151]

Yet, Mantas have never been able to take down a Lyoko Warrior in two shots. Only Creepers have done that. I admit that attacking the core would have destroyed the Skid, but what's the point? Jeremie most likely has the files to re-create Lyoko and the Skid backed up, the former thanks to Mr. Hopper.

Since when have Creepers been able to devirtualize in two shots? Only Megatanks and Krabes can do that to my knowledge.

Also, Jeremie has said time and time again in several episodes that reprograming the Skid if it were to be destroyed would take months, far longer than it would take to reprogram Lyoko (which they would incidentally have to do first and then try to reprogram the Skid afterwards).

And about the training....I will admit that it does get something done, but that it leaves scars. Physical and Emotional scars which would drive anyone to yell back, and I wouldn't blame them.

First rule of that sort of training is that you don't yell back. ^^; You take it. That's kind of what most boot camps are based off of. The "Break 'em down and build them back up as fighting machines" mentality.

Again, I'm not saying that would be my preferred mode of training but it is a form of training and it does work whatever way you look at it.

Also, it wasn't right for Jeremie; Jim, as a teacher and instructor, should have realized that certain forms of physical training do not work with certain people. He could've made Jeremie run or something, or something less intensive. A good trainer knows the limits of the people who train under them. Common fact.

*Feels like we're Wright and Edgeworth.*

Ironically though, Jeremie was the one interested in more training at the end of the episode...so apparently Jim's training worked for him. ^^;

At any rate, he did make Jeremie run. And to that extent, a good trainer does know the limits of the people who train under them but a lot of them also try to extend and push those limits so that they can get better. That's what training is all about. Pushing your limits so that they grow.

[Taelia offline]

Amen, Aurabolt! I agree! He also insulted the kids, which isn't fun.

[MewmiC offline]

Yeah but Taelia, that's just Jim's method of teaching. Some instructors are more relaxed and willing to slow down if people are falling behind, others will keep working and force those laggin to keep up. Jim's the second.

If you watch Avatar the Last Airbender, it's comparing Katara's teaching style and Toph's. They both had different teaching methods, it's just a matter of preference. Sure knowing the students strengths and weaknesses helps, but Jeremie didn't always come to gym class now did he ?

[Aurabolt offline]

Yet, Mantas have never been able to take down a Lyoko Warrior in two shots. Only Creepers have done that. I admit that attacking the core would have destroyed the Skid, but what's the point? Jeremie most likely has the files to re-create Lyoko and the Skid backed up, the former thanks to Mr. Hopper.

Since when have Creepers been able to devirtualize in two shots? Only Megatanks and Krabes can do that to my knowledge.

Also, Jeremie has said time and time again in several episodes that reprograming the Skid if it were to be destroyed would take months, far longer than it would take to reprogram Lyoko (which they would incidentally have to do first and then try to reprogram the Skid afterwards).

And about the training....I will admit that it does get something done, but that it leaves scars. Physical and Emotional scars which would drive anyone to yell back, and I wouldn't blame them.

First rule of that sort of training is that you don't yell back. ^^; You take it. That's kind of what most boot camps are based off of. The "Break 'em down and build them back up as fighting machines" mentality.

Again, I'm not saying that would be my preferred mode of training but it is a form of training and it does work whatever way you look at it.

Also, it wasn't right for Jeremie; Jim, as a teacher and instructor, should have realized that certain forms of physical training do not work with certain people. He could've made Jeremie run or something, or something less intensive. A good trainer knows the limits of the people who train under them. Common fact.

*Feels like we're Wright and Edgeworth.*

Ironically though, Jeremie was the one interested in more training at the end of the episode...so apparently Jim's training worked for him. ^^;

At any rate, he did make Jeremie run. And to that extent, a good trainer does know the limits of the people who train under them but a lot of them also try to extend and push those limits so that they can get better. That's what training is all about. Pushing your limits so that they grow.

First response: Krabs require two-three compared to where they hit. Megas, being the strongest, require one unless they guard, which is proven in "Code: Earth" and a Season 2 episode I can't remember. Also, that's when the Skid needed time to be completed. If he packed up the modifications and original plans onto a disc or multiple disks, he wouldn't need to worry.

Second: OBJECTION! (:) ) *Slaps desk.* No one takes that kind of abuse without some response. It's human nature to confront threats and raising voice with equal force, and no person in their right mind would take that kind of abuse. The people I saw had been doing it for several days, so I expected them to say nothing, but when it comes to someone who fights back, I find that people like that are more prepared than those who just decide to take it lying down. To fight back proves you are prepared to take down the enemy, not taking the abuse. Willingly taking that kind of strain and anguish? Not at first.

Third: There's extension, and there's overkill. The Balance Beam? The Rope Belay? The Climbing Net? The only reason I'm not saying that Aelita isn't wanting of this physical training is because she's on Lyoko, and except when her wings are involved, (which she should use more often, just because the extra mobility and speed allow for faster tower deactivation.) she does need a LITTLE more. For her, it was just mildly unacceptable. For Jeremie, it made no sense. At the beginning of the episode, he knew his physical limitations, and knew there was no point to this. Hell, if Jim had been smarter with this "being a man" stuff, he would've realized it.

Not to mention that Jeremie gets his daily workout everyday. I mean, going to the factory during Xana attacks and to maintain Lyoko/Skid/etc, Gym Class, climbing on top of BUILDINGS to get a disk...It can't be denied.

Edit: MewmiC, if you recall....Toph's training sent a boulder at Aang! At least even with boot camp training, they aren't trying to kill the soldiers outright....Katara's was much better; during the first season, it is clear that compassionate, but stern words and gentle encouragement was the right way to go. Toph was pretty reckless, from where I was viewing.

[Kamekai offline]

Wow, as soon as I saw the first part of this ep, the first thing that came to my mind was: 'Taelia's gonna hate this' But even in the beginning, you can see that the signs are everywhere. Jim cared, even in the first part. i.e: If you notice, he set up *on his own* an entire field to train the gang. And that's a lot of hard work, believe me. Then, the second part came, and I was thinking, wow, so that whole 'back-injury' incident last ep was an isolated one. Not likely to happen again. Second thing in my mind was, wow, so Jim actually knows how to handle boars, so their must be some truth to the whole, "If you're out there in the jungle with nothing but a ciggarette lighter and you don't know all you need to no, you're dead meat." saying. Another thing, I had just been telling Taelia 1 hour before the episode that even though Jim could seem mean, I knew that if time called, he'd be there to help the gang, and even risk his life for their safety. Huh, weird. What really got me though, was the balance between the Lyoko-Earth scenes. perfect 15 minute mark. Half Earth, then half Lyoko. And Jeremie knows how to splint! And from what I deduce, Jeremie now looks up to Jim. Well, Jim-haters, looks like the whole commando-thing worked. Jeremie actually wanted to go back for more!
And God, the flashback pictures were hilarious.

All in all, even though it didn't give me much of what I wanted, I didn't rate it for that, I rated it for what it did give me. And I advise you to do the same.

One more thing, didn't anyone else notice a significant landmark in Lyoko history? Come on, guess! Aelita actually ran through a friggen tower! Woo-hoo! FINALLY! Oh Yeah, Uh-huh! Go Aelita, you can think for once! Uh-huh, Oh, yeah! W00T!!!

There you have it, my first well though-out review. Enjoy!

I voted 10/10, but it shoulda been a 9/10.