Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[Jazzy Josh offline]

true, I hadn't thought about that, TB3, we didn't see any clips after the transfer to Lyoko in "The Key" what if Aelita, was shocked so much by the fracturing of her Aatar, tha she had acute memory loss that she didn't keep after her avatar was fractured and that XANA never got ahold of either

[MY85 offline]

Franz, even after his paranoia and instability, wouldn't delete the backups, because he knows that in several years the battery will deplete and they'll need to come out to replace it.

And the dude who got possesed during Season 2 (Common Interests, IIRC) who replaced the battery... possesed by Xana or Hopper? I kinda think it was Hopper, since he could be mroe aware of the battery replacement than Xana.

[animenologist offline]

Actually, in Common Interests, it was Jeremie who replaced the battery. Jeremie was kidnapped by Peter Duncan who was possessed XANA, and Peter brought Jeremie to replace the battery.

I would doubt that Aelita at the point of her first virtualization, would be able to understand too much of the supercomputer or able to create something of that complexity as what you're implying. When she was first shown with the supercomputer, she had no idea what it was, implying that Hopper kept her in the dark about the computer, its functions, and purpose (former or latter), and as such she wouldn't have had extensive training in its uses. The fact that she still needed to perform research to help Jeremie with his original materialization program or that Jeremie is able to do much more with the supercomputer than Aelita, points to a lack of training and not a complete understanding on her part.

[Rudger offline]

Franz, even after his paranoia and instability, wouldn't delete the backups, because he knows that in several years the battery will deplete and they'll need to come out to replace it.

And the dude who got possesed during Season 2 (Common Interests, IIRC) who replaced the battery... possesed by Xana or Hopper? I kinda think it was Hopper, since he could be mroe aware of the battery replacement than Xana.

You may be onto something there but, on the other hand, XANA needed to keep himself "alive" to be able to complete his plans so he possesed Peter and kidnapped Jeremie to make him replace the Battery. If franz had possesed him then he most likely would have replaced it himself because he knows how. XANA didn't because he only knows the programming side of the supercomputer and not how it actually functions. Plus Franz would not have kidnapped one of the team and would probably try to make contact with them. Just a thought although I don't know if it is valid because I never saw the ep. and I am going on gathered info.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

I's not that he doesn't know how the computer works, i's that when the neuclear battery was to be replaced, the Supercomputer had to be shut off, therefore, XANA couldn't have done it because the computer would be off

[Rudger offline]

My bad. Like I said, I only have some gathered information because I never saw the Ep.
sorry for screwing up the world with my nonsense

Although when I think about it I remember the mention of a deisel powered generator back up system. So why did they need to shut it down. They could have switched to backup power and replaced it then. But I am probably making no sense again so I will shut up.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

The kids probably didn't know about the generators, pls, Jeremie didn;t have the time to waste on cranking them up.

[animenologist offline]

We've always thought that a diesel generator, if it does exist, doesn't have the energy to run the supercomputer as a whole and is only used as a back to keep only the basic of parts running in order to keep information and an active tower activated. For example, I currently have a clock that has a battery power backup, but the battery is only meant to keep the clock up, not to set off the alarm or power the LED. The battery is only their to make sure the clock keeps running in the case of a black out or loss of power. Once the power comes back on, the clock resumes showing off the LED and the alarm can go off. Otherwise, the generator won't allow them to do some of the more complex tasks, like keeping up Lyoko or allowing transfers.

And I believe that it has already been answered that in Common Interest, XANA required somebody to change the battery because changing the battery required the supercomputer to be shut off. Once its shut off, that would mean XANA's control over Duncan will lapse, thus making him to be unable to accomplish the task. Hopper would similarly require another willing volunteer if he wanted the battery changed (or get out and change it himself).

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

For example, I currently have a clock that has a battery power backup, but the battery is only meant to keep the clock up, not to set off the alarm or power the LED. The battery is only their to make sure the clock keeps running in the case of a black out or loss of power. Once the power comes back on, the clock resumes showing off the LED and the alarm can go off.

I defiantly think you just named it exactly there. The backup generator is only to keep the vital process up. That or a way to kick start the supercomputer's normal power system. It’s most likely not as simple as just flicking on a switch and it start's converting radioactive particles to energy. It would need something to start that process.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

yes, I agree that it is just to kick start the computer, though I'm sure there is a way, we never saw evidence that you can devirtualize yourself from Lyoko other than committing "Suicide"

[Rudger offline]

It seems that any time i put up an Idea it is torn to shreds, but thats life.

Anyways A disturbing thought occured to me. When a person is virtualized it seems that the person is actually killed in the worst way possible, atom by atom. During the virtualization proccess the mind is scanned to make a copy of the mind. There is no way to bring the actual mind into the computer meaning that a copy must be made. After the proccess is completed the body is destroyed by being sent into ZPE space, according to the articles posted by TB3, in exchange for energy which is transferred to capacitors. The consiousness of the origional actually dies while the copy continues to live on with all of the origional's memories and personality unaware of the fact that it is a prefect replica of the origional. When the body is reconstucted it is this copy of their cosiousness that is put into it. My point is that to the person being virtualized the proccess is something like this: a floating sensation from being suspended by the bitter electromagnet, then scanning occurs, then they are ripped apart, atom by atom.

This is one theory that I hope is disproven, because if not I think my veiw of the show might change a little.

As always, feel free to rip it apart.

[TB3]

Ah, this is a tricky concept whatever way you look at it.

It's not like the Matrix where the body remains while the mind is 'elsewhere', and a person's interpretation of it might well be coloured by their own religious or spiritual beliefs.

Now, consider the transporter from Star-Trek - that physically destroys a body and there is a period where the conciousness ceases to exist, unlike in the scanners. Remember also, that Montgomery Scott (Scotty) from the original Enterprise held himself for several years inside a transporter's buffer-pattern (or intermediate stage), a period where he existed only as data, and not as a conciousness, at the end of which he returned to breifly appear in The Next Generation - therefore we have a precedent.

However, does any person who goes through a transporter classify as 'dead', and if so, what about the thing that comes out the other end, and does this apply to the scanners?

Now personally, I believe the 'soul' and therefore the 'life' of the person exists with the conciousness, so it continues from the body to Lyoko and back into the new body.

If this applies to the show, you would have a breif moment where two conciousnesses share one 'soul' in the scanners - possibly this might only feel like disorientation, and once the body is detroyed the conciousness stabilises.

As for how 'painful' scanning is - well we never see the kids scream in pain. Possibly the matter-energy transfer occurs too fast for pain to occur, or the pain might be so great that the mind refuses to accept it.

The other option is that it doesn't hurt at all - after all, no-one has ever had their body converted into raw energy before and told us how it feels.

Just my thoughts - love to hear your feedback

PS: Thinking more about Star Trek reminded me of an interesting episode. Prior to the events of the Next Generation a transporter malfunction occured whilst beaming Riker (Johnathan Frakes) up from a planet. The result was that two Rikers were created unbeknownst to th others. One arrived on the ship, and the other was reflected back to the planet - both were identical, and both thought they were 'The' William Riker.

Eventually they met and showed different personalities as a result of how their lives differed after the event, so they might be described as two seperate beings and souls. For example Will Riker became Captain of the USS Titan, while Thomas Riker (the name given to the copy) became a Lieutenant, before defecting from Starfleet and joining a faction known as the Marquis.

What if we have a scanner malfunction that ejects the subject unharmed, but not after the conciousness has been sent to Lyoko - this gives us two identical varients of the same person - who then is the true Aelita, is there even a 'true' Aelita, and of the two who has the right to continue Aelita's life, and which of the two has the right to Jeremie who they both love?

In such a situation, what would you do? - it raises moral and theorectical possibilities unknown to us, and I think as Hawking once put it this is the power of sci-fi, to make us dream of events and possibilities impossible to us.

[Lani offline]

I always thought that because their bodies are being ripped apart, they would feel at least some pain, maybe like a sharp ripping feeling for a split second, but then it goes away or something... but that's just me.

And totally off-subject question, but with today's technology, would it be possible to build the supercompy and stuff? I've been wondering that for a while so yeah... xD;;;

[TB3]

And totally off-subject question, but with today's technology, would it be possible to build the supercompy and stuff? I've been wondering that for a while so yeah... xD;;;

Umm, probably not - LTT is built on a basis of science fact garnished with fiction however, so if we keep working at rationalising and refining the theories (as the Tachyon paper aims to do, round about tommorrow if I knuckle down to it), we might actually end up with something workable.

An example of the fact/fiction dichotomy happened the other day - I wrote out various equations that apply to our work - Schrodinger's Rquation, Dirac's Equation, the Tachyon energy rating and the ZPE energy rating, and tried to combine them into a single 'Hopper Equation'.

In the end I had a nice pretty equation which linked these elements, but which meant nothing - maybe in time though just such an equation might exist - so, like I said in my edited post above, we continue to dream today's science-fiction, which might become tommorrow's science-fact

[animenologist offline]

Well, if they really felt any great amount of discomfert, it would be known by all and some mention of it would have been given. At the very least, Aelita would of mentioned if she had some acute and horrifying pain during her first virtualization after her materialization. The fact that she regrets most of all is the lack of her newfound pleasure in the other senses, points to the fact that the virtualization itself, offered no memorable discomfert.

With pain, its all based upon the perception of the nerves as it sends the sensation to your brain. Without the nerves to sense it, there would be no pain. Its also very possible to deaden the senses of the nerves, like anesthetics or even just going to sleep. If I were to anestisize your arm and cut it off, you'd feel no major pain since the nerves in your arm had their senses deadend. And if I were afterwards took your arm and grinded it up into hamburger, your arm will not feel any pain, since it not connected to your brain to send the message. Since the virtualization process takes in an instance, its possible that they just dissasemble your nervous system, before your brain can realize it or even the nerves have a chance to register it. It could even be possible that the sudden burst of energy deadens your nerves prior to being pulled apart. Either way, just being pulled apart atom by atom is not in and of itself painful. I could probably take a parplegic man and grind up his legs and he wouldn't have much notice.

As for discussions of being 'alive' and of ones 'soul' during the virtualization process, that seems dangerously close to philosophical territory with potential religious connotations. And if its one thing you never mix, it's religion and science. All we know is that during after the virtualization process, they no longer fit the biological definition of 'living' (which in and of itself is an incomplete definition). You are no longer capable of growth, self-reproduction, or intake of material in order to sustain or build upon oneself. But though they may not be "alive", they still are sentient, able to think, talk, and learn. Where that leads is us is a philosophical (partially religious) question, which I'm not really up to talking about right now.

[Cassius335 offline]

Now personally, I believe the 'soul' and therefore the 'life' of the person exists with the conciousness, so it continues from the body to Lyoko and back into the new body.

If this applies to the show, you would have a breif moment where two conciousnesses share one 'soul' in the scanners - possibly this might only feel like disorientation, and once the body is detroyed the conciousness stabilises.

What about Ulrich's Triplicate power?

What if we have a scanner malfunction that ejects the subject unharmed, but not after the conciousness has been sent to Lyoko - this gives us two identical varients of the same person - who then is the true Aelita, is there even a 'true' Aelita, and of the two who has the right to continue Aelita's life, and which of the two has the right to Jeremie who they both love?

I wonder if Jeremie kept a copy of Aelita's data after "Just In Time". You know, just in case...

[Jazzy Josh offline]

It always seemed to me that the clones acted either Naturally as Ulrich would have done, or under Ulrich's Order

[TB3]

Here's the long awaited esay - enjoy.

THE APPLICATION OF TACHYONS AND ASSOCIATED QUANTUM THEORY TO LETS TALK TECH

Tachyons are theoretical particles suggested by Quantum Theory – they display some aspects of anti-particles in that they fly in the face of reason, except they occur in realty and not an anti-reality.

Tachyons (literally meaning ‘fast particles’) have a negative mass – ergo they can violate the ‘matter becomes infinitely heavy at Light Speed’ rile and transcend the light barrier – as any old LTT salt knows, superluminous speed equate backwards time travel, as dictated by the Einsteinien theory of relativity.

Tachyons achieve these speeds by voiding their charges – i.e. the less energy you put in, the faster they go (sales pitch of the year, more for less)

How Tachyons might be created is debatable but one current theory is that Quantum fields would condense into matter, forming Tachyons. This is contentious – no-one knows whether or not Tachyons exist, and most scientists will simply subtract then from their equations in order to ignore them.

Of course…they never looked in the right place

Tachyons display some co-incidental parallels with Zero-Point-Energy – both were pioneered in the 1960s, both build on the same principle (ZPE is the lowest quanta of energy, and Tachyons theoretically form at the lowest quanta of a Quantum Field), and both are connected to Schrodinger, Heiseburg and Paul Dirac.

Is it so strange that Franz wouldn’t have a hand in them?

There’s more evidence yet - Quantum fields (and thus Tachyons) are created by alterations in energy levels on the Quantum level – therefore any device incorporating Quantum mechanics would put out Quantum fields – such as a Quantum Computer.

Now imagine a Quantum Computer twelve feet high and fourteen feet in diameter, utilising millions of Quantum Components. Here we have a machine which is practically GENERATING time-travelling particles.

So, let’s unite Zero-Point-Space, and Tachyons, via the Hopper-Equation.

*

It becomes apparent that in Zero-Point-Energy and Tachyon-Energy, that we have the two ‘unwanted-childs’ of the scientific community – concepts mathematically proven to exist, yet which no-one wants to accept.

I have developed the Casimir Effect to explore this, and have come to some discoveries – my Casimir-Hopper-Experiment requires two plates of superconductive material, to which is applied an electrical current. This creates a Quantum Field in Zero-Point-Space (re. my earlier work) of variable power.

If the applied current is high enough, that field becomes a tear between reality and the quantum world of ZPS as I have practically demonstrated. However if the lowest quanta of energy is applied, I predict that Tachyons will come into existence within Zero-Point-Space through Tachyon Condensation, as shown by both the Schrodinger and Dirac equations when written in my personal notation.

This explains how Tachyons can exist and yet not-exist in our reality, and also brings about an intriguing possibility – by monitoring the interactions of Tachyons and the rest of ZPS we can build a Quantum model of Spacetime.

The means of achieving this is by inverting the Hopper-Casimir-Effect. Much like the principles behind a generator are also the key to building a motor, the experiment can be used to observe ZPS instead of control.

By replicating the Exertanium Nanotubes of my scanner design, and applying the lowest quanta of current, a miniscule Quantum-Field will we created in ZPS – any fluctuations in this will invoke another current in the nanotubes, which can be measured and interpreted.

I propose that this concept be incorporated into the Supercomputer Development Project to which I am currently attached. Not only does this have massive scientific merit, but can also prove beneficial to the project – the computer as it stands has the ability to learn from it’s environs – and the opportunity to construct processing algorithms from the data of a Quantum Reality would be a boon to both the project and the finished machine.

Project Carthage Annual Budget Hearing, April 1986

*

The Hopper Equation is a derivative of the Schrodinger Equation. It is a relativistic Quantum Mechanical Equation describing an electromagnetic vacuum underlying the universe, known as Zero-Point-Space. In this sense, reality could be described as foam floating on the infinite sea of Zero-Point-Space.

The Equation displays some parallels with the Dirac Equation developed in 1928 by British physicist Paul Dirac. This equation is a special relativistic development of the Schrodinger Equation and was highly successful when applied to theoretical electron dynamics – however in order to balance itself the equation predicted the existence of a quantum-universe of negative energy, to balance the positive energy inherent in reality – Dirac defined this universe in 1930 and it subsequently became known as the Dirac Sea.

The Hopper Equation is also a balancing exercise in Quantum Mechanics, but is applied to balancing many the forces in the universe which draw their energy from unknown sources. These include the Zero-Point-Energy and Tachyon phenomena, and may be applied to more recognised forces such as gravity.

Given that Zero-Point-Space underlies reality it is infinite, and as an electromagnetic vacuum it is comprised solely of energy. While previous experiments with Zero-Point-Energy failed at using ZPS as a power-source, the Hopper-Equation also suggested a means, in short a quantum application of the rules of conservation of energy.

By this, any matter inserted into ZPS displaces its exact equivalent in energy back into reality. The amount of energy gained for that matter, or vice-versa, is calculated by the famous Einsteinian equation E=mc2.

Energy = Matter x The Speed of Light, Squared

The means of inserting matter into Zero-Point-Space was also predicted by the Hopper-Equation, building on the theory of Tachyon Condensation. Electromagnetic fields in our reality exert a Quantum Field on Zero-Point-Space, and if of a sufficient density, configuration and power, would open a cross-ways tear between the two.

Manipulation of the fields also allow the formatting of energy drawn from Zero-Point-Space;

When no power is applied to the apparatus, a minium electrical charge appears. This is the standard Zero-Point-Energy witnessed in the Casimir Experiment.

When the lowest quanta of electrical energy is applied, the energy drawn from Zero-Point-Space occurs in the form of Tachyons.

The higher the applied power to the fields, the more substantial the emitted particulate matter becomes. At the opposite end of the scale to ZPE and Tachyons, we have fields of power substantial enough to convert energy into physical matter, preceded by the generation of electrons.

Therefore the energy scale and product of the Quantum field appears like this

ZERO: Zero-Point-Energy > Tachyons > The Particle-Wave Spectrum > Electrons > Matter :MAXIMUM

In the Factory Complex, the nuclear battery, scanners and supercomputer all make use of this principle, using fundamentally the same hardware.

EXERTANIUM NANOTUBES

The gold panels lining the scanner interior and fixed to the casing of the supercomputer are the perfect expression of Hopperian theory and mechanics. They appear solid, but are actually comprised of millions of vertical nanotubes, each of which has a hexagonical cross-section. The shape allows the nanotubes to lock into each other, creating structural strength.

The reason for using nanotubes for the panels is that they emulate the Casimir Zero-Point-Energy experiment, where two metal plates are held in proximity face-to-face and a ZPE charge is found between them.

However within each nanotube, because of the hexagonical shape, we have three pairs of facing panels, and these are replicated with each of the millions of nanotubes.

Unlike the Casimir Experiment however, the panels do not register a tiny charge of ZPE. Instead the panels themselves are energised themselves to produce Quantum Fields in Zero-Point-Space.

Let’s cover each different device, from the highest power rating to the lowest.

THE NUCLEAR BATTERY

The concept of how this operates remains much the same as when we postulated the concept of Exertanium Coils as opposed to Nanotubes.

The reactor chamber is cylindrical, and both the inside of the walls and the panel at the opposite end to the entry port are made of Nanotubes.

The only difference between the end panel and the walls is that the end panel is a focused panel – i.e. instead of emitting an even Quantum Field it projects a focused one.

When we turn the nuclear battery over then, the following takes place.

The diesel generator primes a capacitor bank. Once the circuit-breaker switch is closed, these capacitors discharge into the general and focused panels of the reactor chamber.

The general panels emit a high-level Quantum Field, but not high enough to open a ZPS rip otherwise the entire chamber would be sucked into ZPS.

The end panels emit another high-level field, focused around the Nuclear Battery but not in contact with it.

The two fields together are dense enough to open a ZPS rip along their points of intersection, in effect shrouding the battery in a ZPS anomaly. The fields are also high enough to force energy displaced from ZPS into a stream of electrons.

Therefore, particle radiation from the Lead 210 fuel rod passes through the ZPS anomaly and displaces a equivilent amount of electrons (E=mc2) – these in turn pass into the wall panels and flow along the completed circuit into the complex power distribution system. The power drawn is now high enough for the reactor to sustain itself and the diesel generator shuts down.

THE SCANNERS

The scanners function much the same as the nuclear battery in that two fields are applied to a single space. One field is exerted by the wall panels and just as in the battery, this field is of a high power rating, but not high enough to tear into ZPS space.

The actual tear is created by the scanner ring, which is lined with focused nanotube panels. When scanning a subject these panels serve as SQUID Quantum Interferance Devices and detect the quantum fields of the individual atoms of the subject.

When the body is destroyed however the focused panels are energised and cease to be scanning devices – instead they emit a focused Quantum Field, which combines with the ambient field of the scanner walls and opens a ZPS rip inside the boundaries of the scanner ring. For an example of what this would look like, it resembles the Stargate.

The scanner ring is elevated and the ZPS rip swallows the body of the subject, destroying it and trading it up for a massive energy discharge which is held in the capacitor banks and used to supplement the nuclear battery when reconstructing the person.

When a person or device is materialised the scanner must work harder. The quantum fields in this case are elevated above the required levels for virtualisation, in order to achieve the density required to convert the energy of Zero-Point-Space to matter.

Once again then the walls power up, coming to the brink of opening a tear into Zero Point Space.

The scanner ring begins to make a pass of the chamber, and the focused panels begin to fire their fields in specific sequence, in order to create ZPS tears that will draw matter from ZPS in the specific form of a human body. This is a very intensive process, both in terms of computing requirements and power, and gives rise to the fear of transcripting errors, a fear XANA played on when he suggested (as Franz Hopper) that repeated use of the scanners was causing cellular degeneration in Yumi.

This is why the reconstruction of a body takes longer than the deconstruction phase of a virtualisation, as the scanner is constantly checking it’s own work for errors and correcting them – thus the scanners are as safe as possible, but it still takes incredible nerve to step into them – this might well be the source of Jeremie’s initial hesitation on the occasions he has gone through the scanners, in that he understands the dangers better than his friends.

THE SUPERCOMPUTER

The nanotube panels on the exterior of the supercomputer were initially devised for one specific purpose, sensing the Quantum Fields in ZPS.

To achieve this the panels are not energised – therefore although they exert a small Quantum Field in ZPS, they do not apply power to that field – therefore the fluctuations of the fields in ZPS can be measured.

It is through sensing these energy fluctuations that the computer builds a virtual model of the world around it as frequently seen in the show.

However, there is a side-effect in these panels – they trap the Tachyon particles emitted from the supercomputer, slowing them to below light speed. The particles are thus trapped in orbit temporarily until they speed back up and escape the magnetic pull of the panels. These fluctuations in the particle’s energy levels are responsible for the glowing light seen moving on the supercomputer’s nanotube panels.

The Tachyons have another interesting effect – once free they travel backwards in time but not in space – at some point they collide with the Quantum Field of the Supercomputer in the past, and it senses the resulting energy fluctuations.

This is how the supercomputer gets progressively more intelligent, by studying both the nature of ZPS, but also the behaviours of 4D particles. And it was through this phenomena that Franz discovered the ability to RTTP – a property that the supercomputer possesses naturally, but which Franz had never realised prior.

The following sequence of events is speculation, but seem likely.

*

Several days prior to June 6th 1994 Franz would have been working at the complex, programming the supercomputer. Suddenly a massive Tachyon flow from the future crashes into the Quantum Field of the supercomputer, resulting in a power spike that possibly inflicted some damage. Franz effects repairs, but is unable to pinpoint the hows or whys of the event.

June 6th 1994, Day 0. Franz in a fit of madness and paranoia attempts to destroy the supercomputer, and thus destroy the evidence of his activities – let us assume the chosen implement is an axe.

Franz descends to the supercomputer level and takes a swing at the processing tower, burying the axe in one of the nanotube panels and piercing through it and into the casing.

Suddenly there is a massive energy discharge – a vertical spike of white light. Franz is thrown back and blacks out.

When Franz recovers he approaches the computer which has shut itself down – worried about touching the axe in case he gets a residual shock he kneels down and examines where the axe pierced the casing.

“Ah – I hit the #2 power feed for the processors.â€

[Rail Runner offline]

so let me get this straight...in theory, that stuff about the scanners doing the whole body thing...could that explain why they have almost no energy when they are rematerialized?...unless I am misunderstanding something..

[Jazzy Josh offline]

The devirtualisation process is in actuality a poor-man’s version of the materialisation program, which is triggered by an avatar’s life-points falling to a critical level – the program begins to prepare to yank this person out of Lyoko – the scanners power up, the data begins to decompile and translate – unfortunately in a crisis situation there is often very little time between 30,20,10 and 0 LP, and so the process has to be sped, stages cut out, the whole affair stripped to the bone – and the net result is that the person is saved, but also they are usually exhausted, on occasion in mild pain.

Don't ask why I'm up this late, too tied to read essay right now, though I absorbed about 40-50% of it[/quote]

[TB3]

I'm surprised there's been no responses yet to the essay I put up, lol - must've scared everyone away

[Jazzy Josh offline]

*Takes an axe to the Tachyon Essay*

DIE YOU EVIL THEROY

*Tachyons shoot out*

OOOOH, pretty lights!!!

_________________

It is a pretty good essay, the hypothetical situation with Franz seems relevant

[mooshie offline]

ok, I tried to hold this back for the sake of the theory, but since you asked for replies, even in the wiki article that you cited, and I assuming you used for research, said that tachyons had mass, but that the standing mass was so small that it was gennerally counted as zero, however even the smallest amount of mass counts as mass even if it's smaller than electron level, which it is, therefore if it cannot go faster than light in the spatial dimensions, although it does disregard time dilaton so technichally if you include the time dimension it is going faster than light, but since it disregard time dilation it doesn't go backwards in time

[Rail Runner offline]

im still trying to sort out all of this information...its illogical its illogical....maybe I dont deserve to be here, cuz I cant grasp the ideas. Later.

[TB3]

ok, I tried to hold this back for the sake of the theory, but since you asked for replies, even in the wiki article that you cited, and I assuming you used for research, said that tachyons had mass, but that the standing mass was so small that it was gennerally counted as zero, however even the smallest amount of mass counts as mass even if it's smaller than electron level, which it is, therefore if it cannot go faster than light in the spatial dimensions, although it does disregard time dilaton so technichally if you include the time dimension it is going faster than light, but since it disregard time dilation it doesn't go backwards in time

Two words mooshie.

Negative Mass.