Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[MY85 offline]

TB3, my apologies for pissing you off before. I can be a jack*** at times. And as you said, all bitterness ends now.

As for voting for Chupa (if I'm allowed to vote): thumbs down until he proves right here that he deserves it.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

ok, sorry to burst your bubble, but tachyons can only travel in time as easily as other particles, all tachyons are, are theoretical particles generated by supersymmetry theory (part of string theory) that have a spin of -1/2 as they are the partner to a particle that I forget that have spin-0 (I think it's the graviton but I'm not sure) so unless your implying that it can go back in time more easily because it's spinning in a different direction, that's not really all that plausible, by the way, what theory are we using, quantum mechanics, relativity, or string theory? I sggest string theory because you can use the same principles for any size object

Mooshie, thanks, and for the first part you are right. Tachyons are theoretical particles that I believe do have a little to do with string theory. Thing is, tachyons actually have two very interesting properties which is why TB3 and I have jumped on them.

The first property is that Tachyons by nature and there very definition are particles (theoretically ANY particle) that travel at Superluminal Velocity, or in laymen terms, faster than light. This is what makes a tachyon a tachyon, and according to the theory of relativity, any thing traveling faster than light is actually going backwards in time.

The second property of Tachyons is how they are made. The current theory is that they are made using Quantum fields, and as we know the super computer has a interesting tie to quantum reality. First is that the Supercomputer by nature detects quantum fields, including its own, and TB3 and I theorise that being a quantum device could also detect tachyons. If this is true then if you could manipulate this field you could create a strong burst of directed tachyons to an exact set of temporal and spacial coordinates, say the supercomputer at the time you want to go back to.

Now if you were to do this the Tachyons would travel back and then interact with the Supercomputer of the past, in doing so the computer would detect these fluctuations and thus data could be encoded in the transmission, the data needed for the RTTP such as the mental data of the kids and other tagged individuals.

TB3 and I are working on a full and better explation as we speak and hope to have it done tomorrow. Diagrams and all - linked if that's preferrable to the staff.

And RoDrInCuBuS, The great and powerful thing was just a joke… I’m sorry if it offended you, no harm was meant.

[mooshie offline]

correct me if I'm wrong, but as I see it even if a particle is massless, like graviton or tachyon, it's maximum speed is light I mean even the force of gravity only travels at light speed and that isn't even matter, the only things that are special about a tachon are that like a graviton (it is the graviton's partner according the the supesymmetry theory) it has no mass, so it can travel at the speed of light, no faster, and it has a negative quantum rotation, quantum rotation being inherent in all "elementary" particles

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

I'm sorry if I sound rude, but from everything I have read, tachyons can travel faster than light.

Please show me where you are getting your information from, and if turns out that I am wrong, then I will gladly take back my claim. Untill then I will suport my theory.

[mooshie offline]

ok then, my source is "the elegant universe" by brian greene, which states that "a particle that goes at the speed of light, such as a graviton, must be massless, whereas no objects may go faster that the speed of light"







P.S. sorry if I sound snotty, bitter, or otherwise unpleasant

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Unfortunately I don’t have that but I would love to see what it has to say (could you please post a excerpt form it on what it is saying on the subject)

I’m trying not to sound like I’m just stuck with my theory and not going to let it go no matter what, but I still have to disagree. While you are right that no normal particle with normal mass should be able to go faster than light, (if even light speed) Tachyons are very special. Tachyons first do not have a normal mass, they actually have a Negative Mass, and because of this, tachyons display another fascinating prosperity that when they lose energy they actually go faster.

My best quickie resource on the subject is the wikipedia article (and maybe I’ve just opened a can of worms) but it’s the easiest way I know how to try and end this disagreement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon

I hope latter on you and I may be able to find something we both have similar thoughts on and be able to run with it as hard as we are now

(By the way, the thing about them rotating was an interesting thing, again please post that information as it will help show one way or the other)

[mooshie offline]

oh ok, I see the root of the misunderstanding, it was stating it's full speed rather that just the three dimensional speed, basically if you combine the momentum of an object on all four dimensions you get light speed, but with tachyons, it's speed on the fourth dimention doesn't decrease as it's speed on the other three dimensions increases, and about the rotation, all elementary particles are constantly rotating at a fixed rate, gravitons at spin-1/2, bosons at spin-1, and some other particle that I can't remember at spin-2, all a negative spin means is that it is spinning in a negative direction, and according to the supersymmetry theory, an objects partner has a spin of 1/2 less than it

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

I hate to ask, but does that mean you are now agreeing with me now?
Sorry I wasn't sure.

I actually have to sign off soon because I have work in the morning.

[mooshie offline]

kind of, I thought you meant in the traditional sense, of just three dimensional speed, whereas it was just four dimensional, and the going back in time thing is based on time dilation which is due to slowing down in the fourth dimension due to an increase in speed in the other three, so yes to the going faster than light, but no to the going back in time, tachyons are special, the don't get the effect of time dilation due to the aforementioned properties

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

I get what your saying now.... I think, but I still am stickign with the time travelign ablity, thouht what you say might also work as well.

Acroding to many theroys (and you can see it is stated in the wikipedia artical) they could travel back in time (look here for the speciffics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon#Causality

Again, I have to go now so I will be back tomorrow to try and explain better, and TB3 may actualy beat me if he does it before I get back

Till then

[mooshie offline]

well this brings me back to my previous question of which theory we're running with, because they all have dfferent answers, I'm going off of string theory, the prospective T.O.E. and the theory that can accurately calculate things regardless of their size unlike relativity and quantum mechanics

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

While I know a few things about string theory and so far found it a great principal, the Theory Of Everything I am a bit more skeptical of right now.

I’m not trying to sound rude or like I’m making a personal shot at your scientific beliefs, I really am not, I do have to say I am going to CURRENTLY take anything from T.O.E. with a grain of salt. I did some quick research one T.O.E. when you brought it up, and unfortunately its track record does not show much yet.

The idea for a Theory Of Everything is an old one, even able to trace it back to Einstein, who wanted a theory that could do what it name says, explain EVERY thing… unfortunately he never did find it, and from what I can tell no one else has for sure. There are some theories but as far as I can tell none are accepted by mainstream physicists.

Now again, I know that LTT is done with fun in mind (or that what I think) but I still think that for best results, we should keep to the mainstream things when possible. Again, I know some things here are just out there, and other’s while biased in fact they are just guesses. That’s all right, heck even my own idea is just that a guess at a few things that makes since to me.

Again, I’m not trying to be rude or what ever, all I’m doing is trying to put my effort forward for my idea… if it’s not accepted or disproved I will stop pushing it… all I’m saying at this point (and it may sound very rude) but until T.O.E. gets a more solid footing in the scientific community and or it’s the only thing that can be used to explain things, that mainstream theories should be taken.

I’m also going to say this… I don’t know the main T.O.E. Theories but I still say nothing is going to change what I have tried to put forth about tachyons, if they existed, the would most likely travel back in time, allowing one to send a message if one could control the flow back and the receiving could understand it, all of which Franz Hopper could have figured out if he had done all the other things.

Again, please know I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just trying to put forth the facts. Take what I have said how you like, just know I don’t mean any hard feelings by this.

EDIT

If nothing else we can agree to disagree till other’s make there own decision.

[mooshie offline]

actually string theory was the prospective T.O.E. I was refering to, although there are several others

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Again, let's just agree to disagree for now. I've show my rough data at this point and plan to clean it up, and what you have said actually doesn’t make all that much since to me (especially when, while I'm not expert, string theory, to my knowledge, has never said that tachyons can't go back in time, but I could be wrong)

If nothing else let us ( Tb3 and me) run it by everyone else, see what they think, and when that happens, you can show us exactly what the book says , if you still wish.

How does that sound.

I say this because if we keep arguing, we are just going to destroy what LTT is about, and neither of us wants that.

[TB3]

Hi guys - whew, hectic here huh?

Doug (Chupa) and I will finish that paper on Tachyons and possible CL applications ASAP - in the meantime here's something I drew yesterday for you to have a look at.

The Hopperian Supercomputer

Also, someone on IMDB has pointed out that the symbols shown on Jeremie's laptop and the console are actually a language created for Star Wars called Aurebesh (sometimes called Aurek-Besh) - any thoughts?

[Lani offline]

Huh... that's funny... And it's from Star Wars? Maybe Jeremie's parents are aliens and they got his computer from outerspace xDD; Just kidding. I do recognize some of them, like the first one, cause I know that's the one he clicked when he was working on the materialization program. Hmm...

And the picture of the supercompy is awesome... xDD; Omg I don't have patience.

Other than that uhh... I have nothing to say so >>; *runs away*

[Taelia offline]

WOW! Nice drawing of the supercomputer!

[mooshie offline]

I saw in the newspaper that a single supercooled silicon microchip has 500 gigahertz, so superconducting chips alone, much less quantum computers with superconducting microchips, are extremely powerful, not really a point to this, just thought I'd share since it is applicable

[Jeremified offline]

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/686/numeric7ay.png

Maybe I've gone paranoid, but does it look like there are numbers in the base of the supercomputer in that picture? O__O

[YDV offline]

xD;; This came up a while ago at UMSD... we had a thread on it and one of our members tried to "decode" some of the things that appeared in the show... and apparently it was all nonsense. So I suggest we don't get too hung up on that.

I'm very interested in your collection of thoughts on Tachyons as applied to CL... because quite frankly I'm not feeling quite up to arguing the validity of current physics theories as opposed to others right now; I'd rather discuss if they're possible and would they work with the supercomputer (I DO hope you know that this is most likely going to end in a gigantic revamp of the current essays... *massages temples* I wonder if we'll ever send anything to Moonscoop..)

Tachyons. The concept sounds intriguing.... although as I understand they -are- completely theoretical as of yet, yes?

As for Chupathingy's acceptance as a Lyokologist... I'm all for it. He seems to have proven himself quite formidable.

Jeez. Why am I always the one to miss out on discussions like this? >>;

Maybe I've gone paranoid, but does it look like there are numbers in the base of the supercomputer in that picture? O__O

...No. No, it doesn't. xD;

[Jazzy Josh offline]

I was posting at TL one day, and I came up wth the Idea that afert XANA had Franz's part of the keys, He put him into the digital void/sea, and that, before the Main power interuption, Aelita started a BACKGROUND program to recompile her Dad's data

also, I thought that since Jeremie had to re-create Aelita's DNA, What if, considering they weren't planning to come back out of the computer, Franz Hopper hiself, deleted his and Aelita's DNA so that there would be absolutly no trace of where he went

Yeah, I hope you can read that, I'll fix YAWN! typos later

I just had to land my theroy before the Tachyon theroy discussion, so this is a theroy bump *ashamed* I would really like to have some feedback on this, though

[YDV offline]

Umm... I don't think Aelita would've been able to create a complex program such as that at 12 years old with no computer experience xD;;

Also I doubt that Franz would've gone so far as to delete their Backup files himself... Surely he didn't expect anyone to find out that they were actually inside the computer, let alone how to get them out. But it is plausible, I suppose, though unlikely.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

Thanks, at least it hasn't been completely thrown down ^_^

[quote="TB3"]For the first time Hopper can reveal to someone his work – possibly he gives an amazed Aelita a tour of a sector as they head towards the edge of the sector. Curious, Franz asks Aelita what they do next, and she instinctively replies based on the information encoded in her copy of the keys and thus within her own mind.

“Scipio.â€

[YDV offline]

...xD;

I had thought of that while I was typing my response but I didn't think anyone would remember it. So according to that, I suppose it makes the theory plausible... but then how would she know that his data would need to be recompiled? And why wouldn't she have any memory of it after her fragment was restored?

And Franz may have been progressively acquiring Acute Paranoia, but I still don't think he would've done something that stupid. It was still most likely XANA corrupting their Avatar files.

[TB3]

Hmm - nice thoughts Lyoko Is Cool, but I see one little problem.

Franz, even after his paranoia and instability, wouldn't delete the backups, because he knows that in several years the battery will deplete and they'll need to come out to replace it.