Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

im still trying to sort out all of this information...its illogical its illogical....maybe I dont deserve to be here, cuz I cant grasp the ideas. Later.

No, anyone belongs here, ask and either TB3 or I will try to explain any questions.

ok, I tried to hold this back for the sake of the theory, but since you asked for replies, even in the wiki article that you cited, and I assuming you used for research, said that tachyons had mass, but that the standing mass was so small that it was gennerally counted as zero, however even the smallest amount of mass counts as mass even if it's smaller than electron level, which it is, therefore if it cannot go faster than light in the spatial dimensions, although it does disregard time dilaton so technichally if you include the time dimension it is going faster than light, but since it disregard time dilation it doesn't go backwards in time

Two words mooshie.

Negative Mass.

Yes, it's exactly the same as what I was trying to tell you before. This is a large part of what makes the superluminal speeds possible.

[mooshie offline]

well, according to the wikipedia article you cited, the only way that a particle like that could exist and be able to go back in time is under a certain model in which
[quote= some random guy on wikipedia]each particle in space has its own relative timeline, allowing particles to travel back in time without violating causality. Under this model, such a particle would be a "tachyon" by virtue of its apparent superluminal velocity, even though its rest mass is a real number. [/quote] so not to sound snotty or arrogant or anything but if you are going to use that theory you might want another source

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

OK, I'll be the first to admit that we took some artistic license, and that is allowed because if nothing else Tachyons are only hypothetical… as in you can't prove or disprove them... or how they would act.

Second thing is that article actually does support us (not just what you are citing) as it is, or if nothing else, with our before mentioned artistic licensing.

Another thing that is just an observation, but it seems while many scientist believe that tachyons may exists, they do NOT like to play with them in theories because it's a LOT easer, ‘cause by the normal rule of thumb for physics (aka the theory of relativity) anything traveling faster than light would move in to the past, FACT. Then again, same can be said about Zero Point Space, that because it’s a pain to try and work in to things and it “TECHNALYâ€

[mooshie offline]

well, in accordance with your suggestion, I would suggest that he discovered that the quantum field generated by the supercomputer enlarged curled up dimensions, specifically a curled up time dimension that would allow someone to trave back in time, and the reason I didn't like the theory was that you cited both quantum mechanics and relativity as you your sources which are provably incompatable, hope that answers any questions you have

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Two things,

First is a question. The way you word it, you sound as if he found a way to actually step back in time, and when he did, he could change events. Problem with this is two fold. The first is that this WOULD cause a paradox. first two Franz's as well as what would happen to he future one once you changed the time line... and then you also get in to the classic Grandfather paradox. Now I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say, so if so, please do elaborate.

Second. Since when did relativity and quantum mechanics not go together. Granted it's been 2 years since my high school physics class, but as I remember the theory of relativity was still one of the corner stones of physics. Now once again, if you can prove me wrong with SOLID proof that I can see and believe, I'll take it in to consideration, but at this time I still don't see how it can go agents the very accepted laws of nature.

Again, please SHOW your source, I would like to see the direct page or transcription of what your are citing, cause the more you argue... the more it sounds like it goes agents every thing I have learned and been taught. Yes, I know things change quickly, but I think I would have heard if there had been THAT big of a change of the laws of physics.

[Rail Runner offline]

so...if Franz would have two of himself...what would happen to either the future self or present self would depend on his actions from that point on correct? Now, would that change everything around him, like family, friends, and all of that, or would it just affect him and only him in this particular paradox?

[mooshie offline]

as to your first question, no it would not cause a pardox, it would only cause another branch of time, in which something different happens, and as to your second question, a direct passage from the elegant universe, by brian greene

like the mixing of fire and gunpowder, when we try to combine quantum mechanics and general relativity, their union brings violent catastophe. Well formulated physical problems elicit nonsensical answers when the equations of both theories are commingled

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

No offence, Mosshie, while I do believe the quote you gave... I think you don’t entirely understand what’s actually being said

First, both The Theory of Relativity and Quantum mechanics are (and I am quoting the term in the wikipedia article ON Quantum mechanics)...

Along with general relativity, quantum mechanics is one of the pillars of modern physics.

I DID try looking around to try to find what you were saying, or at least anything that would back it up. This is what I found...

Since the early days of quantum theory, physicists have made many attempts to combine it with the other highly successful theory of the twentieth century, Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. While quantum mechanics is entirely consistent with special relativity, serious problems emerge when one tries to join the quantum laws with general relativity, the more elaborate description of nature which includes gravity. Resolving these inconsistencies has been a major goal of twentieth- and twenty-first-century physics. Despite the proposal of many novel ideas, the unification of quantum mechanics—which reigns in the domain of the very small—and general relativity—a superb description of the very large—remains a tantalizing future possibility.

What it was saying is not that they do not work together, but trying to combine them at this time proves hard because many of the equations do not play nice… mainly GRAVITY… or so that’s what I’m seeing… never the less that’s not the real point here

Now while I know many of the Superstring theories now no longer use Tachyons as an explanation like the Bosonic theory did, they do not automatically disprove them...

Finally, you even saying how GENERAL relativity and Quantum mechanics are not playing nice, SPEICAL Relativity is... they can work hand in hand... and it's special relativity that I am using for the theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Theory_of_Relativity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

EDIT

Also mooshie, again, if your going also try to continue with your subjection... again GO IN TO DETAIL

[Tangent128 offline]

Sorry to nitpick, but I think you mean imaginary mass for the tachyons, not negative. In the Wikipedia article on tachyons, it says that their squared mass is negative; that would mean that their actual mass is an imaginary number, like i. Negative mass travels through time normally, but interacts with gravity reversely. To the best of my knowledge, though, imaginary mass should travel faster than light and backwards in time, as desired.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

You have a point... but I think either term can be used...
Either way, thanks for the input.

[mooshie offline]

well, to be more precise as you requested, the primary incompatability is that relativity (which inlcudes both special and general) states that in the absence of matter space has zero gravitational field whereas quantum mechanics states that it is on average zero, however it undergoes radical fluctuations noted in the uncertainty priciple which is central to quantum mechanics, these fluctuations were described by john wheeler as "quantum foam", this dirupting the gently curving gravity of relativity thus going against the central principle of relativity, the smooth spatial geometry, and while it may be that you are only using special relativity, you are using gravity in your suggestion of negative mass which would be propelled by gravity, and if your theories on how gravity works is only valid in spaces smaller that a planck length, there's a problem, seeing as a plack length is a millionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a centimeter, and as always I'm not trying to be snotty or rude or anything I just want the theory to be as realistic as possible

[TB3]

Yo guys!

Look, I love you both (no not in THAT way!) - but Chupa, Mooshie - it might be best to put the brakes on before this runs out of control.

As far as I can see - both of you are convinced of the validity of your theories - I go with Chupa personally because of the artistic sense of his idea and the fact that theoretical physics allow us some leeway.

Mooshie - you have good points often, however I feel now it's becomming a little silly - if it were possible to apply 100% pure science to CL without some degree of fictionality, then we'd all have scanners in our back yards!

That said the same points apply to both sides - and I'd just like to end the current debate now before this thread becomes LTT2: The Tachyon Wars!

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

good point TB... let's end it, I dont' thinke either of us are going to give up easly.

[Cassius335 offline]

That said the same points apply to both sides - and I'd just like to end the current debate now before this thread becomes LTT2: The Tachyon Wars!

Maybe save that title for LTT3...

[YDV offline]

Yo guys!

Look, I love you both (no not in THAT way!) - but Chupa, Mooshie - it might be best to put the brakes on before this runs out of control.

As far as I can see - both of you are convinced of the validity of your theories - I go with Chupa personally because of the artistic sense of his idea and the fact that theoretical physics allow us some leeway.

Mooshie - you have good points often, however I feel now it's becomming a little silly - if it were possible to apply 100% pure science to CL without some degree of fictionality, then we'd all have scanners in our back yards!

That said the same points apply to both sides - and I'd just like to end the current debate now before this thread becomes LTT2: The Tachyon Wars!

THANK YOU. xD;;

Yeah, I agree with him. The main focus of LTT is to figure out how stuff works. Not argue the validity of hypothetical physics theories. Kay? Kay.

God. We -were- talking about Tachyons being used by the Supercomputer right? Or should we just avoid that subject for now?

[Jazzy Josh offline]

as at least 50% of you believe we should consolidate, our ideas, but we have about 11 pages before we get halfway through the life of the thread, and I think that we should a least temporarily stop on adding theroys unless they are very beg and total essay shaking, such as tachyons were and start trying to build this essay. Also, I'd like to touch on how we are going to be sending this to Moonscoop. It does seem like it is going to be a big compilation, at least te size of a book, 200< pages?, considering the current seperate essayswould probably fit ion 1-3 pages each, and consolidating them to eliminate overlap would probably be still 1-2 pages per essay aftewr compiled, if we send it off by mail, unless it is express/Rush, it will be at least a month to get there, considering it is going overseas, and it takes about 6-8 weeks 1o to get from where you are to the place and back, not to mention the cost of shipping to France. It would be a very big file for E-mail, probably at least 50 MB just for text, an if you include pictures, at least 100 MB, though I'm not quite sure on all of the details. So what do you guys think, or shoould this wait to be discussed at the aformentioned halfway point.


My right hand is so tired. I had to switch to my left.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Uh just one to say one thing

Reall sorry guys for going on and on litke that.

Maybe we can get some real work done now.

<b>Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:53 pm - Post merge point.</b>

boy
nothing new...

[MY85 offline]

boy
nothing new...

Boy, don't double post. Part of the rules at the forum.


And this isn't a tech post from my part... but I've noticed the Lyokologist badges... and I think it's not LTT exclusive, but it was also originally made for those who <b>contributed on both LTT and Xanadu threads</b> and not just only on the LTT thread. Unless I'm mistaken... I think the guy who made the Lyokologists badge should owe me a explaining in case I'm just confused.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Your right, should have realized that would TECHANLY be a double post... even thought I was commenting on how nothing has been added SENCE that last pose... 3 days ago, not posting two things right after each other (hum…… )

and about your question... I have no idea myu self... hopefuly TB3 will be back soon and be able to tell you, that or one of the others.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

then again, originally Project XANADU was an attempt to build a Lyoko, not just a game like it is now.....then again, it's not like any of the people from P:X had them anyway, and if how TB3 sees it then maybe editing te P:X portio and putting Let's Talk Tech 2 in it's place and in the bottom center put Hopper's Principles for it to completely inmlement the two threads and the essay "Hopper's Principles"


Also on a side note, we aren't going to let TB3 have ALL the fun in writing the essay right?

*hears chirps*


ok, yeah, maybe it would be best to have TB3 do it (I'd rather have a TB3 made Essay thean an LiC made Chapter which has to be overhauled by TB3 at least)

[YDV offline]

boy
nothing new...

Boy, don't double post. Part of the rules at the forum.


And this isn't a tech post from my part... but I've noticed the Lyokologist badges... and I think it's not LTT exclusive, but it was also originally made for those who <b>contributed on both LTT and Xanadu threads</b> and not just only on the LTT thread. Unless I'm mistaken... I think the guy who made the Lyokologists badge should owe me a explaining in case I'm just confused.

Yeah.. I think it was originally for people who worked on LTT and XANADU... but now it's more of an LTT thing. I dunno, considering people from XANADU aren't using it much....

And yeah, we'd better get crackin' on... revising? The essay. Cuz I would've liked it if we'd sent it off to Moonscoop BEFORE they'd nearly completed Saison Trois, but hey... >>;

[Jazzy Josh offline]

how about, since we are all agreeing to disagree about tachyons, put a chapter entitled "Tachyons: an Alternate Theroy"

again, like I said, how do yall see us sending the essay to Moonscoop?

[YDV offline]

HOW? Well. Don't worry about that, we've got that covered. But we're still not done.... I think... >>; (Although we SHOULD be by now... we need to stop bickering like school children and get everything together.)

That's a good idea though.

[TB3]

Hehe - guys. I now declare that since I am home from university I am free to complete the LTT essay - time to go full steam!

[Cassius335 offline]

Your essay needs a version history!

Yeah.. I think it was originally for people who worked on LTT and XANADU... but now it's more of an LTT thing. I dunno, considering people from XANADU aren't using it much....

Maybe they should call themselves XANADIANS or somesuch.