Christians

[. offline]

Not Accepting that won't change reality.

God doesn't want people to go to Hell. We all Have a chance he set up for us, the choice is yours if you wanna take it.

Oh, and as for the Salvation just for Salvation part, in the Words of Tangent128 (looking back on page 1 lol)

Since a true Christian has the spirit of Jesus in their heart, they should desire to do good simply because it is good. Of course, the fact that the flesh exists in a fallen (sinful) world means that one doesn't always suceed.
Following the commands in the Bible is an expression of one's salvation; one isn't saved by being good, since nobody on Earth can be perfect- the smallest amount of sin is still sin.

if the smallest amount of sin is still sin, then what the large amount of good then?

I reject Salvation if my friends are going to Hell. It's as simple as that, cause then God, Heaven, Satan, Hell might as well all just be the same thing to me.

[Reesane offline]

Questions: If good doesn't want us to go to hell, then why did he give us free will? Why is there evil in a world that he created? Why did he even create an opertunity for evil to break out into his idilic garden of edin?

And lastly.....

Why the heck hasn't he done anything big for the past millena, proving once and for all that he exists, insted of reling on faluble human servents to convert others into one of hundeds of sects of the same religion?


I've already come up with my own aswers to the questions, and they're not very suportive of any religion.

[Kamekai offline]

I'll answer the first one.

Lol, what's the point of making us if we all did exactly as God said? Forcing us to love him? Where's the satisfaction-- for anybody? >_> You can't force someone to love you and expect them to like it. <_< And uhh, this is the exact reason why the last one shut down. So please, let's not start. =/

[JesusFreak offline]

Questions: If good doesn't want us to go to hell, then why did he give us free will? Why is there evil in a world that he created? Why did he even create an opertunity for evil to break out into his idilic garden of edin?

And lastly.....

Why the heck hasn't he done anything big for the past millena, proving once and for all that he exists, insted of reling on faluble human servents to convert others into one of hundeds of sects of the same religion?


I've already come up with my own aswers to the questions, and they're not very suportive of any religion.

1. What Kamekai said

2. God allowed a chance for sin because He gave us free will.

3. God desires us to Believe through Faith, plain in simple.


I agree With Kamekai, Lets cool this down a notch.

[Gauntlet offline]

Oh really? Did I Type in all caps YOURE ALL GONNA GO TO HELL? Did I shove you off in a corner, calling you an idiot? did I shove up a load of reputable evidence from the bowels of the internet? Did I say I'm glad that Thic Quang Duc went to Hell? DId I? I'm sorry, but the Bible says "the wages of sin is death" and Jesus Said "I am the way, the truth, and the ligth, there is no other way to the Father except through me." You said You are a Christian, yet you have never read the Bible...That's Like saying Im a fan of a TV show when I have never seen an episode. And Finally, I'm not Jesus. I'm no Biblical Scholar, but Jesus was talkign to Jews, and the Jewish people had Judaism, which was the right way Until Christ came. Judaism has many of the same Principles Christianity has, so Jesus wouldn't have to Mention Hell. I dunno...I might be wrong on that last part.
I'm Sorry if I seem angry, but you misquoted me about what Ive said.

I figured that may have been brought up against me. No, I haven't read the Bible, but I still associate myself with Christian...mmm, what's the word? Morals, or traditions, perhaps? Not sure; technically, I'm a Christian, and prefer to see things that way, but no, I haven't read the Bible, so maybe I'm not one after all. I figure I can get by without it, though.

And, about what I said earlier, I quote what you said because, to me, it felt like that's how you feel. I read it as though "I'm trying really hard not to speak my mind, which is telling me to tell everyone that they're going to hell, but if I said it, then no one will like me for being annoying", or something to that effect. It sounds like you're saying you know who's going to Hell and who isn't. If it's not that, though, then I apologize for misreading it.

Possibly the last thing I want to bring up before I cast out on my gloomy rowboat... What is exactly going to happen to people who haven't been introduced to Christianity yet? I'm pretty sure that there's at least one tribes in the world that is still miles behind modern technology, and hasn't heard about Christianity. I know that there have been some children, brought up in a normal residence, but have been locked in their room for their entire life, abused in every way (I'd have to find the article to remember it detail for detail), but would God really banish them for not even knowing about Christianity? I don't think this has been answered yet, and I'm curious to hear some responses.

But anyways, I think I'm done with this thread. I don't think I've contributed much to the thread, except tension, perhaps. I'd be interested in sitting around talking some more, but I get a bit excited with these kind of things and come off as rude all too often.

[Tangent128 offline]

Possibly the last thing I want to bring up before I cast out on my gloomy rowboat... What is exactly going to happen to people who haven't been introduced to Christianity yet? I'm pretty sure that there's at least one tribes in the world that is still miles behind modern technology, and hasn't heard about Christianity. I know that there have been some children, brought up in a normal residence, but have been locked in their room for their entire life, abused in every way (I'd have to find the article to remember it detail for detail), but would God really banish them for not even knowing about Christianity? I don't think this has been answered yet, and I'm curious to hear some responses.

Good question. Trust me, many ask that, and nobody really agrees on the answer. Some feel that God judges based on whether that person would have accepted Chirst if they had known.

We certainly don't want to leave that to chance, though, so you can perhaps see why Christains are so concerned about evangelism.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

If God created all humans, then he wouldn't have let people get so out of touch. Humanity has been around for longer. If a person hasn't been introduced, then they can't properly go through the customs. The decvvil can't tell there there, because God can't tell they're there, because they don't acknowlege God. It's like the whole thing about a lightbulb never seeing a shadow, because it's always seeing light, but never seeing light because it knows nothing else to tell it's not dark.

[Kamekai offline]

What if the lightbulb goes out?

lol, anyway I get what you mean, but it took me a minute there.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

What if the lightbulb goes out?

lol, anyway I get what you mean, but it took me a minute there.

Then the lightbulb doesn't see anything, because it is dead. And since it knows neither darkness nor light, the rest of it''s material existance is left there.

[Kamekai offline]

lol, not dead, just broken. but I digress...

[. offline]

Questions: If good doesn't want us to go to hell, then why did he give us free will? Why is there evil in a world that he created? Why did he even create an opertunity for evil to break out into his idilic garden of edin?

And lastly.....

Why the heck hasn't he done anything big for the past millena, proving once and for all that he exists, insted of reling on faluble human servents to convert others into one of hundeds of sects of the same religion?


I've already come up with my own aswers to the questions, and they're not very suportive of any religion.

1. God Gave us Free Will because We were meant to worship him, and worship without Free will isn't worship at all.

2. God allowed a chance for sin because He gave us free will.

3. God desires us to Believe through Faith, plain in simple.


I agree With Kamekai, Lets cool this down a notch.

So bassicaly God wants his ego stroked and if we don't comply where in for a world of pain and suffering. Cause yeah okay that is SO how a good guy operates.

[JesusFreak offline]

*sigh*,

No, I forgot to type in He loved us and wanted us to love him back of our own feree will, but I thought maybe people would read Kamekai's post too.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Free will does not allow worship, though. Free will allows choice, and it's the free will's choice to choose what to worship, or when to worship.

[JesusFreak offline]

Excactly! Worship is so much sweeter to God when we have other things we could do. It shows we care about Him and what He has done for us.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

That's nice for God, but it's not nice for the people who've been forced to become Christians over the last thousand plus years or so.

[. offline]

*sigh*,

No, I forgot to type in He loved us and wanted us to love him back of our own feree will, but I thought maybe people would read Kamekai's post too.

OH OKAY! So he loves us, but if we don't return the feeling THEN where in for a infinite amount of time of tortue, burning, ect....

Free will there, I can definatly see when the two choices are between getting hurt and not getting hurt.

[JesusFreak offline]

That's nice for God, but it's not nice for the people who've been forced to become Christians over the last thousand plus years or so.

The people who forced those people to be Christians weren't Christians themselves. FOr a long while, the Roman Catholic Church was SERIOUSLY Messed up.

[quote=ThePepsiPiper]

OH OKAY! So he loves us, but if we don't return the feeling THEN where in for a infinite amount of time of tortue, burning, ect....

Free will there, I can definatly see when the two choices are between getting hurt and not getting hurt.


[/quote]


That, unfortunately, is the side effect of Sin entering this World. God doesn't want tosend people to Hell, but they have to be punished for their sin.

[. offline]

Um no they really don't. If when the chips are down they end up doing the right thing and try to be the right person thats what matters at the end of the day. Thats what SHOULD matter at the end of the day.

Again, a little sin is still sin then the large amount of Good is what? Worthless?

[Tangent128 offline]

A large amount of good is still good. However, sin is anathema to what God is. He can't accept any sin within His presence. Hence the need for salvation.

Maybe not a very satisfying answer...

[. offline]

A large amount of good is still good. However, sin is anathema to what God is. He can't accept any sin within His presence. Hence the need for salvation.

Maybe not a very satisfying answer...

It's not. Because as the most powerful being in the universe He can do anything.

[Tangent128 offline]

Because as the most powerful being in the universe He can do anything.

No. He can't do that which is inconsistant with His nature. See:
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-cannot.html

[Carth]

Serious religious discussion. So.

I don't really think of God as having a real, physical mind or will. It's nice to understand it that way, but it's too human a conjecture. (Humanizing God does not make him God. It makes him human.) To me, he's the superficial force that brought about the Universe, and wants to keep it going. In summary, he is hope, or someone we can project our hopes upon.

...just my two cents. *slinks away*

[JesusFreak offline]

Um, Half of that is right...

God exsists on another plain, that of the spirit realm (I just sounded like some cheesy LoTR roleplayer). However, he also wants a personal relationship with you, to share his plan for your life and to Help you.

[Gauntlet offline]

I think it's a little cheeky to say which version of God is right. It's not like we have proof that he exists--how can you be so sure? In fact, I'd venture to say God is not on that spiritual realm--people have tapped into that spiritual realm looking for spirits or whatever, and usually (or at least on all television haunting programs) they stumble upon an evil demon or a ghost. I don't think God would reside in that realm. And I can say you're only half right if you disagree with me, even though I have no way to prove what I said is right. *hearty thumbs up*

Anyways, personally, I see God in a very similar way to Carth. I agree with the idea of never putting a face on God. People will always love Jesus Christ and never get mad at him because he has a face; on the other hand, there are very few (if any) canonical renditions of God himself, and people usually vent their anger out on him because we can place all of our anger on on his face and tear him apart if we wish. People, myself included, are very fond of Jesus Christ, but we are quick to blame God for our problems, simply because we like the idea of blaming a faceless entity for our problems.

I'm not saying that it's right or anything, but I think we're somewhat fortunate to not have put a face on God just yet. It does allow some personal growth and lets us think differently--the same way I view sin, which I feel is necessary, as much as it nips me in the bud on a daily basis.

[JesusFreak offline]

I think it's a little cheeky to say which version of God is right. It's not like we have proof that he exists--how can you be so sure? In fact, I'd venture to say God is not on that spiritual realm--people have tapped into that spiritual realm looking for spirits or whatever, and usually (or at least on all television haunting programs) they stumble upon an evil demon or a ghost. I don't think God would reside in that realm. And I can say you're only half right if you disagree with me, even though I have no way to prove what I said is right. *hearty thumbs up*

Anyways, personally, I see God in a very similar way to Carth. I agree with the idea of never putting a face on God. People will always love Jesus Christ and never get mad at him because he has a face; on the other hand, there are very few (if any) canonical renditions of God himself, and people usually vent their anger out on him because we can place all of our anger on on his face and tear him apart if we wish. People, myself included, are very fond of Jesus Christ, but we are quick to blame God for our problems, simply because we like the idea of blaming a faceless entity for our problems.

I'm not saying that it's right or anything, but I think we're somewhat fortunate to not have put a face on God just yet. It does allow some personal growth and lets us think differently--the same way I view sin, which I feel is necessary, as much as it nips me in the bud on a daily basis.

First of all, i agree about Giving God a Face, I just disagree with saying He's an impersonal force running the universe. However, He does exsist on the Spiritual Plane AND the Mortal Plane because, well, he created them. The exsistance of Demons and evil spirits should be a clue (there are only two paths to the spiritual realm: The path through demons ((I.e: Mediums and psychics)) and the path through praise and prayer to the Lord.). Next of all, If you wanna say youagree with Christian ethics, just say you support Judeo-Christian Ideals, not necessarily saying you're a Christian. (I would of put that in a Pm, but I have no idea how to do that thing with the Ses.) I havn't heard the word "cheeky" since I was wathcing that British guy On the Apprentice.