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What would you change about the show

General original series discussion (Seasons 1-4)

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What would you change about the show

Postby optimus304 » Wed May 12, 2010 5:13 pm

Basically what plots or stories do you think need'd removed or changed. or should a idea be add'd.

In my view one thing that should of been changed was how in season 4. Xana was still a secret. i mean the story could of progressed even better if the world got wind of xana's exsitance. then people would take intreast. the people responsible for Antea's dissaperence would step forward and so would other world goverments wanting the super computer for themselves. while the gang would be busy with all these people wanting the computer. Xana would launch a full scale invasion all over the globe. leading up to season 5 which would of been a world tour of such.

also some OXS.
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Postby TheTsunamix » Wed May 12, 2010 5:31 pm

Personally, I feel they should have talked more about Project Carthage. It seemed like a major thing, yet the only references we got of it were in "The Key" and the end credits of Season 2 and beyond. I know some of it is mentioned in the novels, at least from what I've heard, but still.
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Postby TheLQ » Wed May 12, 2010 7:04 pm

First thing: Keep consistency with the battle scenes. Through most of Season 1 two to 4 blocks was a major challenge, but Aelita was well protected (usually). Then all of a sudden in Ghost Channel XanaNeverDies counted 20 blocks with Aelita completely out in the open, and they just said "Meh". <-- WT* . And then

Next, shorten the battle scenes. There are times where just a few enemies takes then forever to get past. Cmon, there aren't that many. You have two long range people (3 on S3+) and 1 maylee(sp) guy, USE YOUR POWERS TO THEIR MAX!!

Then, bring back the Megatank. It disappeared after S1, resurfaced a few random times, but was never used alot. Its a TANK!! An INVULNERABLE tank!

4th, STOP with the filler! One of the things that made Avatar (the tv show, not the movie) so much better than CL is that the episodes followed a story line. Each episode was different. Sure, it might of been the same base story of good bad good, but thats any drama. CL on the other hand didn't advance much per episode. Its only then 2 beginning and end eps that actually did something to the story. It was the same old everything fine, Xana attacks, team or someone in danger, group goes through long battle to fight one monster ( :D ), Xana defeated, everything normal. Cmon, change it up! (Hence why my favorite episode is Ghost Channel)

5th, expand on the background of the supercomputer. Season 1 didn't even mention where it came from. It simply started with the gang knowing how to use this mysterious thing. First question was where the crap did they get something like this. This wasn't answered till the prequals, but then it left a gaping hole on where this stuff came from. You had Franz Hopper, but he was only vaugley referenced most of the time, with only a few episodes actually about him. Where did he go? Add a twist where Franz Hopper somehow survived. And answer some questions: Why was the government after him? What was Project Carthage? What significance did it have to military? Why the virtual world?

6th, add more monsters. The Sector 5 monsters in S2 were nice, and then there was the Colloseus, but that was it. Is it too hard to create a few more monsters? And make something that doesn't shoot, make it a fast maylee(sp) unit (excluding William and other possessed people)

7th, XANA SUCKS!! Xana is a freaking autonomous program. If you've seen Terminator, THATS what I want. Smart, learning, and creepy monsters. Not this crap of sucky tactics, 2 monster armies, horrible accuracy, etc etc etc.

And thats it. All of the stuff that CL could of improved on but didn't. Maybe thats why it flopped in the US.
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Postby Rho » Wed May 12, 2010 7:55 pm

Better, longer theme song. Check out Soul Eater's 2nd opening or the Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig intros. Imagine CL with an intro like that.

Some more age-appropriate voice acting. Ulrich, for example, does not sound like a 14-15 year old. Crispin Freeman could probably make a good Ulrich.

More of a dark plot. Yes.

Also, some mild swearing in the English version would be nice for realism. It's in the French version, apparently.
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Postby TheLQ » Wed May 12, 2010 8:33 pm

Rho wrote:Better, longer theme song. Check out Soul Eater's 2nd opening or the Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig intros. Imagine CL with an intro like that.


No. I hate it when shows have a 5 minute long intro. Intro's should be short, sweet, and to the point. The current one is just fine. Now only if I didn't have to listen to this friggen english translation

Rho wrote:More of a dark plot. Yes.

Also, some mild swearing in the English version would be nice for realism. It's in the French version, apparently.


I guess
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Postby Taelia » Wed May 12, 2010 9:48 pm

A REAL episode talking about Jim's past! Ergo, his family, how he became the PE teacher, etc.

And an episode talking about Sissi's family as well!
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Postby AmericanLyokoTeam » Thu May 13, 2010 5:10 am

We sorta had this topic before: http://lyokofreak.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5588

Regardless, I'll repost (with minor corrections,) my long-winded dump here, since I thought it was pretty good upon rereading

***

I've long felt that the episodes and series suffered a huge lack of pacing, tight character interaction, and all around scale. Were it written the way I feel it should have been, it would have been a struggle to cut the info in one episode down to the twenty something it actually airs for. It often felt like the episodes were struggling just to MAKE 20 something minutes.

Assuming I have to run roughly the same plot arc the series did (thats the game here, right?) that means writing a lot more personal drama, and in the keynote episodes, finding a way to intertwine it with the action. They tried to do this sometimes, and we had good examples (Vertigo, Routine, anything with William pre-XANAfication) that kept getting callbacks the whole series. They also had misfires however. (I'm thinking just about every time they tried to link things up in season four, a lot of season one, etc.)

Changes at a minimum:
1) Gives XANA a motivation. He's good as a silent antagonist, it adds menace and makes his efforts seem genuinely alien, but give him a backstory. More information about what Franz created him for, and why he's so crazy and out to take over the world now. This could easily fill half a season itself, finding a little more out about him each time. For that matter, dive way into the past of Franz Waldo Hopper Shaeffer Lets Stick On A Few More Names: The man dies and is still an enigma to all of us beyond a few bare minimum story framework servicing's. Franz and XANA are the core of the underlying mystery: the only thing people are watching for besides the daily interaction of the main characters.

2) Main characters:
Ulrich - Tone down his hero complex, make sure he's evenly on the same level as the others throughout unless there is a very good plot reason calling for him to be awesome or heroic in an episode. Vertigo was a good fault, but its not an excuse to not write him any other human flaws. Problems with his parents and inability to talk to Yumi are where a lot of the real drama value for him is, and we never see any good reason for it in the series from his end: think of it this way, what drives him to be who he is. For example, Is he exactly like his dad, and thats why they clash? Seems like that would be an awesome way to do it to me

Yumi - Show tended to throw her into faux-action-girl land, especially early on, where she'd need help about half the time. Aelita had a good reason to need it, Yumi on the other hand should have been more capable, and not picked on by XANA as much. Most of her real life drama was done well, although they could have gone to give her a bit more coloration as to personality. She comes across as really blank, at best you sort of transfer Ulrich's "I'm the focused one" personality on to her, whereas she could really have used more self-definition

Odd - is an awesome character. Seriously, out of all of them, they actually gave him the most personality and rounded 'good traits to faults' ratio. Could have spent more time showing why he was that way (are you feeling a pattern here?) It was nice to see his parents, and hear about him having so many sisters, but much like Ulrich fighting with his folks, we need more back story to get any real drama from it.

Jeremie - Poor boy didn't get half the recognition he deserved, and worked far beyond a believable scope. Sometimes they addressed him being overworked, but they really kinda needed to have more arc of him getting pressed as time went by or deadlines for the fight on XANA drew closer. In general, he's ok, and has a nice 'good traits to faults' ratio, but just kind of exemplifies how the show wasn't serious enough about the stakes many times.

Aelita - She should really have become more capable once they gave her abilities in S3/S4. On the one hand, Yumi actually stopped getting picked on thanks to her, but on the other hand, XANA and Xanium really didn't feel like they even had to work hard to beat her sometimes. The rest of the gang had to show up and rescue her like they actually had a valid plot reason to do in S1/S2. Seemed to lack human faults after she well established her identity in S3/S4.

Sissi - Make her ambiguous if you want an ambiguous character. Another one of those that Season 2 treated right and then she got hammered for the rest of the show as a one dimensional bad gal/occasionally good by plot point character. I accept that she was never meant to be brought on as a warrior, but she could have played a much bigger part if they had wanted to use her well instead of just to fill time with another face sometimes.

William - Treated well right up to the time he got XANAfied. This sorta ties in with point one in that it required more development on the how and why of XANA possessions before they could have him talk more. The Lake was about the only post XANA episode where he said or did anything of interest, namely remembering his oath and freaking out, that was good, that was character related, and we never did see a lot of that from him after he fell.

3) Shipping -
a) Make UxY a tension that builds the whole series, rather than going for it in S1, backing off for two seasons, and just barely getting back to the same level at the end of the series. I know there are a lot of people angry they didn't kiss, but it's my contention that with those two the way they are, they don't have to. Merely admitting they want more to each other IS the highpoint of what we see of their relationship. It's a change and open honesty follows, clearing up three or four season of not admitting anything to the other.

b) JxA becoming a real relationship when she's materialized end of S1/S2 is fine, but god, write them some ups and downs. Season two did a good to very-good job of this: Sometimes they were right on the same page and sometimes they had fights where they wouldn't talk for a while, and yet still make up in the end. Season three fell off this completely and season four only rehashed the 'Jeremie doesn't care about her music' plot point to dead-horse-beating blood-from-a-stone levels.

c) Odd. I guess you don't have to resolve if winds up with anyone, but at least give the boy relationship arcs that last for more than one episode. I wanted to see OxSi for a long time just because she's almost a match in terms of giving him a horrible time if he lost interest quickly. If they wanted to, they could have developed it as a love/hate from the beginning: have her win some of the one line zingers sometimes, and made them evenly matched adversaries. The payout of this is amazing whether he winds up with or rejects her, which is the kind of thing I think would vastly improve the show. Sam fans: I think the series needs her too, the one girl that Odd is so right with that he actually for once doesn't get bored or screw anything up. It's just she doesn't live locally and only shows up a couple or few times a season. Bonus points for any kind of conflict between her and Sissi if you're developing both concurrently as I would.

3) Other characters

Jim - OK, he's your comic relief, I'm fine with that. He still needs to occasionally be capable and not fumble over himself so much. Sometimes they managed this, but whenever they didn't, he proceeded to become an impossibly unbelievable and cliche character. More truth out of him at some point would have helped combat some of this, even if it removed some of the humor.

Teachers/Administrator/Grounds crew - Nobody over the age of the kids had any time in the competence zone of this show. There were times they were close on this, but really the adults needed a lot more credit and seriousness given to them, either to service or hinder the heroes, fine, but not this sort of general irrelevance they fell into.

Herve/Nicholas - God, give them some reason for existence beyond Sissi needed cronies. You don't make characters unless they service the plot, you could have easily given any two random people instead of having these two running around, and I would either give them a reason to exist or take em out.

4) General Summary (redux)

Tighter pacing, less filler, more care for scenes somehow each serviceing the plot, tighter conversation which sounds more natural instead of the fast and official tone they usually always took, action intertwined with the plot without feeling like a forced 'moral of the day.'

It's a tall order, but I think even with the basic plot the show had still being followed, there was room for a lot of improvement if somebody had been plotting it out from the beginning.

[If anybody is looking for a writer~]
Last edited by AmericanLyokoTeam on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Taelia » Wed May 19, 2010 12:07 am

Make XANA more human like. I.E., make him not only have a human body, but have him lust after a certain girl to create romantic tension. Have him continually daydream about the girl and remark on how good of a queen she would be or how ravishing she is.
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Postby MY85 » Wed May 19, 2010 3:25 am

Taelia wrote:A REAL episode talking about Jim's past! Ergo, his family, how he became the PE teacher, etc.

And an episode talking about Sissi's family as well!
Nobody cares about Jim.

Sissi... I might be interested, but the writers would have half-assed it and somehow make Odd look "good" and throw some unfunny potshot at her.
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Postby TB3 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:48 am

Taelia wrote:Make XANA more human like. I.E., make him not only have a human body, but have him lust after a certain girl to create romantic tension. Have him continually daydream about the girl and remark on how good of a queen she would be or how ravishing she is.


No.

XANA lusting after someone is all kinds of wrong, and doesn't fit in with the show.
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Postby Taelia » Wed May 19, 2010 1:31 pm

Don't crush my mood, TB3.
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Postby Cassius335 » Thu May 20, 2010 11:58 am

I'm afraid I have to agree with TB3. It's XANA, after all. So utterly not his style.

OTOH, Something like Eva-XANA trying to romance Odd to keep "her" cover going might be amusing... and an interesting challenge for an AI which doesn't have feelings to try to fake them.
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Postby TheAppleFreak » Thu May 20, 2010 1:43 pm

Taelia wrote:Make XANA more human like. I.E., make him not only have a human body, but have him lust after a certain girl to create romantic tension. Have him continually daydream about the girl and remark on how good of a queen she would be or how ravishing she is.

It's a computer virus. Computers =/= humans.
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Postby Taelia » Thu May 20, 2010 7:52 pm

Ah, sorry. :(
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Postby TheTsunamix » Fri May 21, 2010 5:10 pm

TheLordOfAppleFreaks wrote:
Taelia wrote:Make XANA more human like. I.E., make him not only have a human body, but have him lust after a certain girl to create romantic tension. Have him continually daydream about the girl and remark on how good of a queen she would be or how ravishing she is.

It's a computer virus. Computers =/= humans.

Actually, it's a computer program. Big difference. Also, IMO, giving XANA a human form isn't really that bad of an idea. In Tron, the computer programs were personified as humans. But as for the "lusting after a certain girl" thing, maybe not such a good idea.
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Postby desincarnation » Fri May 21, 2010 6:46 pm

I must agree with AmericanLyokoTeam about most of the things.
I think that what CL failed mostly on was the Schaeffers' and XANA's backstory. I remember watching season 4 only for the purpose of finding out how their plot would be developed. It was a real disappointment to see Waldo killed and get no explanation of his mysteries.
Continuing about backstories, I'd love to see more of Aelita's backstory. Especially how she managed after finding out she was human in Season 3. They hinted the problem of her identity in ep 57th, "Aelita" and it was a step in a good direction.
Another thing is the pacing that ALT already mentioned. Especially in season 4. After the amount of filler that were given, the finale looked really rushed.
Recently I'm into a show Avatar The Last Airbender. If CL was as mature and coherent and had as awesome character interactions and backstories as ATLA does, it'd be one of the most epic cartoons ever. It had potential.
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Postby TheLQ » Fri May 21, 2010 8:59 pm

desincarnation wrote:Recently I'm into a show Avatar The Last Airbender. If CL was as mature and coherent and had as awesome character interactions and backstories as ATLA does, it'd be one of the most epic cartoons ever. It had potential.


Funny how I migrated to there so quickly. I actually have all the Seasons/Books if you want them (also have them in DVD form).

The backstory though does need ALOT of work
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Postby TheAppleFreak » Fri May 21, 2010 9:36 pm

Lord.Quackstar wrote:
desincarnation wrote:Recently I'm into a show Avatar The Last Airbender. If CL was as mature and coherent and had as awesome character interactions and backstories as ATLA does, it'd be one of the most epic cartoons ever. It had potential.


Funny how I migrated to there so quickly. I actually have all the Seasons/Books if you want them (also have them in DVD form).

The backstory though does need ALOT of work

You know Sokka? He's voiced by Jack DeSena. He's my cousin. I've met him in person at a family reunion, and I'm likely to meet him again at an even larger family reunion this summer (and I can supply pics to show that it happened).

Technically, the books are ment to fill in on the backstory... a bit.
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Postby Taelia » Fri May 21, 2010 9:46 pm

Your COUSIN?! Oh man, that's cool!
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Postby desincarnation » Sat May 22, 2010 3:58 am

Funny how I migrated to there so quickly. I actually have all the Seasons/Books if you want them (also have them in DVD form).

Thanks, but I already have a source. :) And yeah, I was sucked in very quickly. I'm in the middle of Book 2 after 2 weeks.
As for other improvements... More two- or more episode-lasting plots. Like spliting Lost at Sea in two episodes. And again, Avatar has it.
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Postby Rho » Sat May 22, 2010 3:28 pm

I thought of an idea.

What if an anime was made that was basically a re-telling of the stories based off of the novels and their awesome dark-ness?
Kind of like Code Lyoko Kai or something in a way.

Keep stuff the same like character names and the setting, but I can only imagine an epic anime theme song for CL.

Dunno where it could air in the USA though, since this idea would involve it getting to like, TV-14.
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Postby Asantewaalrus » Sun May 30, 2010 3:43 am

If the Powerpuff Girls and Lilo and Stitch can get an anime, anything is possible.
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Postby mcrlvr394 » Sun May 30, 2010 9:33 pm

I think they maybe (definitely) should've gone through with the relationships. They shouldn't just lead us on and end it!! Although, I didn't get to watch much after the beginning of season4 so it might've happened... I wouldn't know.
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Postby Rho » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:35 am

Asa wrote:If the Powerpuff Girls and Lilo and Stitch can get an anime, anything is possible.


Truth, though both of those were American and popular in Japan...no clue how well CL does over there.


Dear anime companies, make an anime based off of the CL novels. Give Odd a beard for all I care. (that'd actually be awesome)


If this were to happen, most likely FUNimation would dub it in English. They've released all the DVDs of CL in America so far.
Also, Crispin Freeman as Ulrich. It could work.
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Postby Tekirai » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:13 am

Rho wrote:If this were to happen, most likely FUNimation would dub it in English.

NOOOO

VIC MCDERPADERP

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well he might make a good Odd but still NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The characters and their interactions are what I love most about CL, so clearly I agree with those who are saying that more character exploration would be cool. I think it did have some character development here and there though, but it wouldn't hurt to throw in a little more of that kinda thing. :<
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