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General original series discussion (Seasons 1-4)

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Postby Cassius335 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:05 am

TB3 wrote:If so, then Jeremie's decision to destroy the on-board supercomputer, crippling the installation, may just have bigger conseqences - any human organisation behind this station is eventually going to discover the damage, which is clearly not accidental - if the kids are ever found out (no RTTP in this episode) then this could be construed as an act of terrorism, sabotage or even an act of war.


I suppose if it becomes a problem they can always do an RTTP then. Can't they?

TB3 wrote:and why in the months since 'The Key' have the human operators on the ground not noticed the evil AI spamming up their mainframe?


Maybe XANA keeps most of his "mass" (i.e: code) in local Zero Space, to keep,at little of himself on the supercomputers as possible.
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Postby Tangent128 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:52 pm

Ah, this spoiler's too good to hide from.

Hmmm... humans on the ground should at least notice if an assembly line's been running. Could XANA have human collaborators? Or is that too much of a Wild Mass Guess(tm)?
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Postby Cassius335 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:06 am

I suspect XANA would block/intercept any telemetry he knew about (subsituting fake data to give the illusion of normalcy).
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Postby Kamekai » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:14 pm

*also is lured into viewing the spoilers*

Maybe he's against the Russians?
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Postby Astro-Xana » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:49 pm

Now there's something about these Replika towers that I'm confused about. If Xana were to activate a Replika tower in translating monsters into the real world. If Xana William (or even the Lyoko gang) were to be translated as well into the real world through this activated tower, would that get rid of the translated monsters?

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Postby Kamekai » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:57 pm

I dunno. It depends on if the mosters were continually sustained by the RepliTower, or self-sustained. Meaning that if they continually use up the Tower's power, and Xanaliam theoretically takes a lot of energy, then they prolly would dissapear. But if they had their own power source, than no. But what would happen if Xanily was devirtualized before Xana could reel him in? :umm:

I know how AX does make some wild theories, but IMO that's sign of a healthy mind, no? lol, I suggest a "AX's Wild Theories" thread, where we can either ammend or disprove his theories without cluttering up LTT3? Just my two cents, no offense AstroXana. :)
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Postby Astro-Xana » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:37 am

TB3 wrote:One possibility I consider feasible is that these are...'limpet mines' of a kind - XANA may have planned to release them from the station and then have them float in orbit to communication, military and civilian satelites, where they would possibly melt-through the outer hull and then once inside either explode or use the spikes to forcibly connect to and seize control of the systems, giving XANA control or a stranglehold of the world's communications networks.

So what you're saying is that these gray spiked balls take control of multiple satellites and that if Xana were to take control of a certain number of satellites with these, that he would then have total control over the Network and that the Lyoko gang are now on a mission to destroy these gray spiked balls in order to free Xana's control of these satellites? If so, how many satellites would Xana need to have control over in order for him to have total control over the Network?

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Postby Tangent128 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:54 am

For the human networks, a lot. The Iridium network has 66 satelites alone.

However, this doesn't help XANA control the capital-N Network; as ZPS, it is more of a parallel universe than a communications system.
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Postby TB3 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:56 am

Astronomical X.A.N.A. wrote:Now there's something about these Replika towers that I'm confused about. If Xana were to activate a Replika tower in translating monsters into the real world. If Xana William (or even the Lyoko gang) were to be translated as well into the real world through this activated tower, would that get rid of the translated monsters?


Well that wouldn't work would it? The towers operate by the same principles as the Lyoko towers, and thus you can't run two conflicting operations at the same time.

For example, if XANA was running a tower teleporting Kanrelats to Earth, then possibly William could use the same means to also arrive on Earth and join those Kankrelats, but the Lyoko warriors would not be able to use that tower for their own purposes unless Aelita shuts it down first.

The only possible means by which teleporting a person onto Earth could cancel out previously teleported monsters is if the supercomputer running the operation doesn't have the power to support that many individuals at one time - for example, we've never seen Jeremie send more than one or two people at a time.

However - the most recent episode showed the host supercomputer supporting Ulrich, Yumi and a bunch of Kankrelats at the same time with no difficulty, so maybe Jeremie's policy of only sending two at a time is for practical reasons rather than mechanical - at means there's always two people left behind to protect the Skid, without which the kids will die as it is the remote uplink to the 'home' supercomputer which supports their virtual existance.

Astronomical X.A.N.A. wrote:
TB3 wrote:One possibility I consider feasible is that these are...'limpet mines' of a kind - XANA may have planned to release them from the station and then have them float in orbit to communication, military and civilian satelites, where they would possibly melt-through the outer hull and then once inside either explode or use the spikes to forcibly connect to and seize control of the systems, giving XANA control or a stranglehold of the world's communications networks.

So what you're saying is that these gray spiked balls take control of multiple satellites and that if Xana were to take control of a certain number of satellites with these, that he would then have total control over the Network and that the Lyoko gang are now on a mission to destroy these gray spiked balls in order to free Xana's control of these satellites? If so, how many satellites would Xana need to have control over in order for him to have total control over the Network?


Not necessarily - as Tangent pointed out there are a LOT of satelites in orbit - the thing is that XANA clearly has a plan for all this stuff he's making (the spiders, those neurological implants which may have other uses besides the spiders) and now these balls, and since they are being manufactured in space, I feel they are built to operate in space, unless they are super-crazy heat resistant and thus able to re-enter Earth's atmosphere and then somehow 'fly' while in Earth's gravity.

If those balls are built to operate in space then what else can they attack except other space-based objects, and aside from the ISS and Hubble Telescope, all that's up there is satelites.

Now, if XANA does want to take over the world (possibly using the spiders etc as his foot-soldiers) then there is an essential necessity - it's the good ol' Project Carthage mandate - block enemy communications, making the organization of a counteroffensive difficult (unless we live in the world of 'Independence Day' and miraculously all the world's remaining armed forces can settle their political differences, establish a command structure and set up a rudimentary communications network using Morse Code quickly enough before XANA digs in, rendering any counter-offensive hopeless).

XANA once took control of a single satelite, but offlining all the communications of the world is beyond him I reckon (that's more of a Skynet thing) - so, in this case he seems to be producing proxy devices that can burrow in and integrate with satelites in order to either seize control of them or destroy them.

And also - XANA's been using that space station for months, yet we only see a handful of spheres onboard, which means that he may have already mass-produced a whole lot more and sent them on their way. If that were the case, then Earth's communications network could be rigged and ready for XANA to just push the proverbial Big Red Button and launch forth chaos on the world!
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Postby Kamekai » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:13 pm

OMG is CL actually... Forshadowing? Well, I'll be.
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Postby jaimehlers » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:42 am

Astronomical X.A.N.A. wrote:I also have a question as well regarding the towers. You already know that if a tower were to be deactivated, that it's actually not technically deactivated because it has a white aura around it (activated by Franz Hopper). Now could Jeremy do something as to where if he were to activate multiple towers in activating the defensive shield around the Skid (which would make these towers green), could he have the two auras (green and white) working together in that once these green activated towers have been turned back to white again (deactivated), that the white aura is actually working for the green aura in that the white aura acts as a substitute for the green aura, thus having the defensive shield around the Skid always active since the towers are always white?

If Jeremy could do something like that, then let's say that in the episode "Tip-Top Shape" when Odd got Jeremified, if Xana were to take control of Jeremy's tower in draining Odd's energy, if the tower were to be deactivated, that would actually make Odd "Franzified" since the tower now has a white aura. In other words, Odd would be powered by the white tower.

I was under the impression that the default color of the towers since Jeremie reconstructed Lyoko was actually white instead of the previous blue. For that matter, the towers in the Replikas are also white unless Xana is actively controlling them. Besides which, Franz Hopper is on the network somewhere. I seriously doubt that he's linked into every tower on Lyoko simultaneously, as well as all of the Replika towers as well.

So I'm pretty sure that a white tower simply means that it isn't currently active, rather than that Franz Hopper is actively controlling it. So that kind of torpedoes both of your ideas regarding white towers, since a deactivated tower doesn't really do anything. Sorry.

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Postby Tangent128 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:51 pm

Dumb question- common theory here holds that the SC parts are made with the scanners (whether Jeremie materialized the ones in Sabotage or just found them in a closet is unknown).

What would happen if Jeremie created enough parts to build another SC, then virtualized them onto Lyoko? :D
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Postby Rycr » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:58 am

Wow...it's been a while...I'm gonna have to reread this thread, but I don't have time to read the whole thing today...

Tangent128 wrote:Dumb question- common theory here holds that the SC parts are made with the scanners (whether Jeremie materialized the ones in Sabotage or just found them in a closet is unknown).

What would happen if Jeremie created enough parts to build another SC, then virtualized them onto Lyoko? :D


So, you're asking what would happen if Jeremie basically built an SC on Lyoko itself? Well, either it would work, and a new virtual world would be created inside the virtualized supercomputer, or it wouldn't work, and everything would implode/explode because a virtual world can't be sustained within another virtual world. Then again...there are the simulation bubbles, which are sort of "worlds within Lyoko."

That's it. I really need to brush up on my ZPS mechanics and such. It's been SOOOO long since I posted here in LTT3...

EDIT: Hmm. I just reread your question, and realized that you might be asking something completely different too. If you're asking what would happen if Jeremie built a second supercomputer from parts he materialized in the real world, rather than parts he virtualized into Lyoko, then the answer's a whole lot simpler. He could create a new Replika and connect it to the Net if he wants to, like XANA did.
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Postby Tangent128 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:53 am

No, I was talking about a SC on Lyoko. You probably missed it, but lately we're thinking that Lyoko/the Network are actually in ZPS- it explains why XANA doesn't just disconnect its Replikas to keep everybody out.

I guess my question was, if on our plane, the SC can manipulate ZPS so as to create "virtual" objects in it, in ZPS, would it manipulate our world, manipulate a "Zeroer Point Space", or just not work/disintegrate?
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Postby Rycr » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:03 pm

Yeah, I read back a couple of pages so I would have SOME idea of what was going on, so I did catch the idea of everything being inside ZPS. In a way, actually, that makes a lot of sense.

As for building the supercomputer in ZPS itself...well...I'm pretty sure there isn't a "Zeroer" point space, as you said. So, either the supercomputer just wouldn't work, or it would cause some sort of paradox that could possibly obliterate ZPS. And because you guys mentioned that ZPS is affected by energy surges in physical space, I bet the reverse is also true. So if ZPS is destroyed, it might even bring the real world down with it!

On another note, there really needs to be a way to compile everything we know so far, for people like me who missed over ten pages and don't have time to read through all of them... I mean, we tried that with the wiki back around the start of LTT3, but it just kinda fizzled out.
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Postby Astro-Xana » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:32 pm

Now I have a question regarding the Replikas. Once Xana has used one of his supercomputers in creating a Replika, is it possible for Xana to "upload" his Replikas that he created to the Network? Which would mean that Xana's supercomputers would no longer control his Replikas and that if these supercomputers were to be destroyed, their Replikas would not get destroyed due to the fact that these Replikas have been "uploaded" to the Network.

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Postby Tangent128 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:45 pm

I don't think so; it appears to me that the Sea has a corrosive effect on most objects in it. Note that the Skid was at risk of disintegrating in "Maiden Voyage" were its batteries to run out; it seems to require energy to keep ZPS constructs intact. (Side note- apparently though, as long as the batteries remain, the Skid can survive direct contact with the Sea, as opposed to requiring its shields.)
Note that after a computer is destroyed, the Replika does hang around for a few seconds before collapsing. (Long enough for a dramatic exit, anywho.)

Depending on how the Towers work, though, it is concievable that a Tower could be activated to leach power from a nuclear plant or something, which might keep the Replika intact.


Incidently... it appears that XANA can't seize control of Towers directly activated through the Skid. Could the Skid concievably deactivate a Tower by docking to it? (I doubt so; XANA could probably jam the linking signal.)
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Postby TB3 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:11 am

Astronomical X.A.N.A. wrote:Now I have a question regarding the Replikas. Once Xana has used one of his supercomputers in creating a Replika, is it possible for Xana to "upload" his Replikas that he created to the Network? Which would mean that Xana's supercomputers would no longer control his Replikas and that if these supercomputers were to be destroyed, their Replikas would not get destroyed due to the fact that these Replikas have been "uploaded" to the Network.


Okay, at this point, it's not possible for a virtual construct to be self-sustaining - I have a theory on how this might be possible, but at the present time, any virtual construct inside zero-point-space / the network needs a host supercomputer to support it.

And as Tangent said, it also needs a power supply of considerable power.
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Postby Cassius335 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:40 am

Zero-Point Energy, maybe?
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Postby Sithking Zero » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:49 am

Nuclear power from the Nuclear battery, remember?

Still, that would be interesting to see: A virtual world in a virtual world...
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Postby Tangent128 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:13 pm

*Wonders what would happen if one virtualizes the nuclear battery.*

*Speculates an explosion in ZPS would result.*

*Thinks maybe a Guardian-like bubble could contain the energy.*
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Postby Cassius335 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:47 pm

Sithking Zero wrote:Nuclear power from the Nuclear battery, remember?


No, not that. Instead of that. I was thinking of the stuff Syndrome's Guantlets throw out.
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Postby Kamekai » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:40 pm

Whadda 'bout when in the last episode of CL, "Cousin Once Removed" when the NavSkid's missles missed and hit a structure inside of the digital sea, and it decompiled off into oblivion. Did some unlucky soul's computer crash, a website or server go down, or something to that mark?
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Postby Tangent128 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:00 pm

If the "buildings" are just ZPS cruft created by the patterns of common processor designs, then likely destroying them wouldn't do anything to the chips themselves.
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Postby Cassius335 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:25 am

So probably something software-based, then.
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