Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[Jazzy Josh offline]

I was looking on the Skype website, and saw a new feature called a Skypecast, basically, up to 100 people can talk about something for up to 2 hours for, so I thought that we could maybe talk about LTT for awhile, and I just wanted yor feedback

*note, Skype (www.skype.com) is required

[JeremieCompNerd offline]

Although I am only on page three of the original thread, I will be reading it all as soon as possible. In the meantime, I have an old theory for you to pick apart.
Atoms are charged positively and negatively because of protons and electrons, by stripping the electrons from the body, all protons would, for a short time before forcing each other away, become measurable. By measuring the positive energy of the protons you could "map" the location of every atom in the human body.
I'm not sure of thoughts or personalities, but memories are formed by connections between cells, wich are made of atoms. Therefore, it would logically stand to reason that thoughts and personalities are made of atoms as well. By mapping the locations of the atoms, you would get not only an exact digital image by wich to rebuild the test subject, but likely an artificial existance that would mirror thier actions as well.
By repeated analysis of the brain, ie: scanning several times in a row without viritualization, it would be possible to pick out differences in the brain, thus enabling, through inferrence, the ability to adjust minor changes in the locations of the atoms to artificially create in their minds the memories they gained on Lyoko. I understand this likely has more than one major flaw, and does not tie in to the other theories presented, but I think one goal you might set is to find alternate routes to the same answers. Theories that may or may not be compatable with the show, but wich stand equal or greater chance of being plausible in reality. I think that with current technology, this has a chance of being possible in the next few years. Comments?

[mooshie offline]

only a few, they are as follows, technically a positively or negatively charged atom is known as an ion (I know I'm nitpicking but you asked for comments), and secondly, great theory but unfortunately it goes against the heisenberg uncertainty principle which states that the more you know where a particle is located the less you know where it is going and vice versa, and about thoughts and personalities, all thoughts are, scientifically, are electrical impulses in the brain, and personalities are thought patterns and memories

[JeremieCompNerd offline]

Sorry, wording on my part. Anyway, the Uncertainty Principle only aplies to subatomic particles in this situation in the sense that you would have no idea where it was going, which wouldn't have any effect on the overall result, since the map would only need to record the location at one given moment, and even then only in the sense of the full atom, subatomic replication is unneccesary. As long as the atoms compose the same cells, in the same spots, it really doesn't count where in the nucleus the proton is, so long as there are the same number, keeping it from becoming a different element.

Also, I must have misunderstood memories, the way I heard it, thoughts were electrical impulses, and memories where protein bonds. Which makes sense, since if an electrical current is a memory, and I remember 10 years ago, wouldn't that mean I have had the same current through the same two electrons for 10 years? Oh well. Back to studying.

[mooshie offline]

oh okay, I must have misunderstood you and yes memories are protien bond and thoughts electrical currents (although they're converted into chemicals to cross synapses), so yeah, good plausible theory

[JeremieCompNerd offline]

Ahh, the smell of a well thought out concept in the morning. Of course, I woke up at 2 pm, so it isn't exactly morning. Still, any suggestions for what could strip all those electrons at the same time, or what could read the protons before they pushed away? Like charges repel, so you would have a matter of nanoseconds to pull this whole thing off. Anyways. If anyone has a concept they need help developing, or could help me further work on this, that would be great.

[TB3]

Ahh, the smell of a well thought out concept in the morning. Of course, I woke up at 2 pm, so it isn't exactly morning. Still, any suggestions for what could strip all those electrons at the same time, or what could read the protons before they pushed away? Like charges repel, so you would have a matter of nanoseconds to pull this whole thing off. Anyways. If anyone has a concept they need help developing, or could help me further work on this, that would be great.

Nicely done JeremieCompNerd and welcome to the thread!

Hmm - this could be factored into our works nicely as part of the mechanics of how the RTTP physically alters minds to input new data - looks like you're gonna go far here.

Right guys - I'm heading off for a week-long holiday, but I'm taking a writing-pad with me so I'm gonna start writing the big-essay, which I intend to ship to Paris this summer - we're too late to affect Season 3, but we're gonna get our foot in the door before Season 4, so help me Franz!

In the meantime, I leave the thread in your capable hands - YDV, Animenologist, Cassius, Mooshie, Chupathingy - take care of her for me

Seeya on the 14th/15th - and have fun!

[Cassius335 offline]

We will! Enjoy your trip!

[Jazzy Josh offline]

lol, I just noticed....

Foot in the door before Season 4

Don't worry, If you die, we'll just extract your brain, and put it in someone else

TB3: ...

[Sithking Zero offline]

I have a question. In the episode where XANA took over the RTTP program, why wasn't Aeilita sent back to earth on the final RTTP? If I understand the current theroy, then the program sends minds back in time, not bodies. So why didn't she go back to earth?

[YDV offline]

......Was she in the supercomputer? xD; I don't remember that episode clearly, maybe TB3 or someone could help you with that one.

[Sithking Zero offline]

Yeah, she and the others were running towards the tower, then the RTTP activated and She was left behind in Lyoko.

[Rudger offline]

maybe she has to be in a tower to leave lyoko. Like when she is materialzed.

I wanted to ask the lyokologists and mainly TB3 if I could use some of the theories you have come up with in my fanfic.
mostly the Exertanium and Nanotube theories and maybe the Tachyon theory if you decide to keep that one.
you can PM, Email, or Aim me or you can tell me right here.

Thanks

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

I have a question. In the episode where XANA took over the RTTP program, why wasn't Aeilita sent back to earth on the final RTTP? If I understand the current theroy, then the program sends minds back in time, not bodies. So why didn't she go back to earth?

Hum... that's a good question, I don't know HOW it might work exactly... but I would assume it works on the same principal as what we see in ghost channel where they were some how kept the gang on lyoko even with a RTTP

I wanted to ask the lyokologists and mainly TB3 if I could use some of the theories you have come up with in my fanfic.
mostly the Exertanium and Nanotube theories and maybe the Tachyon theory if you decide to keep that one.
you can PM, Email, or Aim me or you can tell me right here.

I can't personally say yea or nay on that, but I don't THINK there will be any big problem with it... but again that's just me.

as to what the other's might say... who knows...

[TB3]

Hi guys - I'm back, and Rudger, I'd be honoured - and I'm sure the others would be too.

As for the writing, I spent the holiday mulling things over, trying to draft LTT in a jacuzi was surprisingly pleasant - hopefully the essay will be finished within a month

[Rudger offline]

Thank you very much for allowing me to use the theories in my fanfic. It will hopefully add another level of reality to it. I will be sure to cite you, Chupathingy and the Lyokologists for the theories. but I wont mention LF itself because we'd probably get a tidal wave of spamming n00bs. and we wouldnt want that.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Thanks, much appreciated. And good luck to you on it

[YDV offline]

Hi guys - I'm back, and Rudger, I'd be honoured - and I'm sure the others would be too.

As for the writing, I spent the holiday mulling things over, trying to draft LTT in a jacuzi was surprisingly pleasant - hopefully the essay will be finished within a month

A... month... xD;;; Silly me. I was clearly being dilusional when I thought we were actually -done- with it, we just needed to revise. >>;

Yeah.. I'm pretty sure I've referenced the theory in some of my fics before.. I just don't remember how. >>;

Hmm. Speaking of which (although it's totally off-topic) I need to go write Chapter 3 of Winterfall....

Ah, yes. I think I may have an idea as to why Aelita wasn't sent back on the final RTTP in 'A Great Day' (TB3 and animenologist are probably better-versed in this, but I'm just giving it a shot) It seems to me that if XANA hacked the RTTP program, he wouldn't have used any modifications Jeremie may have added in order for Aelita to be properly 'taken care of' (because she didn't have a Back-Up File contained within her vDNA packet, she would've stayed within the supercomputer). It may have even been a newer version of the program.

Hm... now that I think about it, I'm beginning to see a problem with this. The RTTP is supposed to do nothing more than send their memories back in time and place them within their minds in the past. If Aelita's body had been outside the supercomputer before, there -shouldn't- have been a problem-- perhaps it can't send memories that don't have back-up files.

Or maybe the Lyokologist in me is just getting old and I don't remember our collective theory that well. xD;

[TB3]

Lol

Guys, I'm just popping in to say DON'T LOOSE HOPE! - if things go well, the next two months could be crucial for LTT - things behind the scenes are coming together.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Actually Whydeevee I think you are on the right track. I have a theory of my own.

Keeping to the idea that the RTTP is just information sent back... this is my thought

What if Xana, while not being able to completely control the RTTP program, can hack it and add data that will tell the super computer in the past that, instead of reconstructing X person's mind in there body, send (or keep) it back to lyoko with there normal data. When this happens, either another peace of added code form the hack, or an function of the super computer, causes the persons body to spontaneously break down, or be sent to ZPS or SOMETHING so that is instantly vanishes out of normal existence.

This would allow not only for Aelita be stuck on lyoko in "A Great Day" but for Yumi, Odd, and Ulrich to be captured and locked in Xana's Virtual prison in "Ghost Channel".

This could also (but could be dismissed deepening on how it is shown in the show) be used to explain what might happen to someone who dies due to a Xana atack before an Rttp if this braking down of the body was a function, not just part of Xana's hack. The computer (for what ever reason) would deconstruct their body and hence to an out side observer the person has disappeared and can't be found, but to the group... they know that the person is dead and gone

Both just theories, but I like them.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

Nice theroy's Chupathingy, considering that the essay has just been start, it might be able to squeeze in, TB3?

[Tangent128 offline]

There are a couple gaps I'd like to be clear about:

The Holosphere: nobody seems to have bothered explaining how it works; I'm guessing it simply routes photons through SAPs, though.

Monster Materialization: somewhere earlier somebody noted that the towers appear to glow red when XANA sends a monster, but I haven't seen any theories on how he does it. It can't be trivial, or Lyoko would be flooded with monsters. (The Crab army doesn't count as "flooded".)
My theory is that, while XANA can't access the scanners without activating a tower, it can access the scanner program. It then sends artificial particle data through the program, virtualizing the monster. The tower glows, since XANA is accessing it, but it isn't accessing the outside world, so it doesn't count as activated. Since the supercomputer appears to lack a proper copy function (but then, qubits can't be duplicated), the particle data has to be recalculated for each monster sent, preventing thousands of monsters being sent at once. Since the monster data starts as a full physical description, there are no problems with XANA materializing them into reality when it does activate a tower.
Any other theories, or ones I missed?

Also, is there any non-plot related reason that people always have to be virtualized a fair distance from an activated tower?

[Sithking Zero offline]

Maybe XANA sets up an anti-matierialization program that prevents anyone from coming into Lyoko within a certain radius of the tower. Also, Aeilita is usually pretty far away from the tower when it's activated in the first season, so they have to be virtualized where she is to protect her. The anti-matirielization program would also draw a lot of power, so maybe it's the power bleeding into the ground that Aeilita feels as pulsations.

Or maybe the anti-matierialization thing only works for Aeilita? That would back up my second theroy that they have to protect her.

Or, maybe they have spawn points, like in a video game. They can't come to lyoko in any other place aside from the spawn points, which are farther away from the tower for easier access to multiple towers.

Maybe Franz Hopper installed it as a security feature. You know, because if someone was virtualized, and knew how to activate the tower, there'd be ample time to stop him/her.

Also, we've only seen a fraction of the XANA attacks that have actually happened. Remember, the Lyoko gang makes references to way more attacks then we've seen, so it's possible that sometimes, they are matierielized next to an activated tower.

If anyone can find a problem with these theroys, let me know.

[Taelia offline]

I just wanna point this out.

If you recall the scene in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory where Mike is inside the Television Chocolate camera, he appears to be levitated inside the chamber, in a similar fashion to the levitation inside the scanners.

[TB3]

Hehe - Sithking makes a valid point - we've never talked about how the holosphere system works. Anyone want to take a crack at that.

And guys, we now have a deadline by which LTT the essay MUST be finished - August 27th - I can't say why, but we've gonna push hard now.

To this end I've been obsessing over some problems I had with the scanners.

SCANNERS

To date we've always said that the scanners convert matter to energy and vice-versa. i.e. the body is converted to electricity, that electricity is stored and then used to reconstruct the body.

The only problem I had with this is that there is NO WAY IN HEAVEN AND EARTH to store the amount of energy contained in the human body. Considering the energy stored in a few grams of plutonium can wipe out Hiroshima, consider how much is contained in a human body.

So the other option was that power from the nuclear batter is converted to matter and used to build the body. Again this doesn't wash, because the battery is tiny, and to build a body you need the equilivent mass/energy.

This had me stumped, until I realised there is a fuel source all around the factory.

The river Seinne.

River water can be pumped into a storage chamber under the scanners. When a body is materialised, this stuff is converted via a ZPS rift into a gas - probably Dry Ice gas (Carbon Dioxide and Water) - this is then vented into the scanner, and is used to build the body via the method described months ago.

Any gas left over when the reconstruction is finished is then vented through the scanner doors - and we can see this in the show.

Does this work for you guys?