Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[DELETED offline]

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[Cassius335 offline]

Another thing I'd like to restress is the idea that the computer gains a Qubit with ever RTTP -

I think you mean 'repress' or 'restrain', not 'restress'.

Nice Avatar, BTW...

[TB3]

Nice Avatar, BTW...

Cheers - I might have to take it down though as I made it from a leaked set photo from the new Transformers Movie and as of yesterday Paramount Pictures are trying to supress any such pictures,

Hmm, guys - this seems the best place to put this since now it seems there's more to the nuclear plant than meets the eye.

France has 59 nuclear reactors operated by Electricite de France (EdF) with total capacity of over 63 GWe, supplying over 426 billion kWh per year of electricity, 78% of the total generated there. In 2005 French electricity generation was 549 billion kWh net and consumption 482 billion kWh - 7700 kWh per person. Over the last decade France has exported 60-70 billion kWh net each year. See also EdF web site.

The present situation is due to the French government deciding in 1974, just after the first oil shock, to expand rapidly the country's nuclear power capacity. This decision was taken in the context of France having substantial heavy engineering expertise but few indigenous energy resources. Nuclear energy, with the fuel cost being a relatively small part of the overall cost, made good sense in minimising imports and achieving greater energy security.


French Nuclear Plants

All of these stations use identical Pressurized Water Reactors designed by Westinghouse in the US. Here's just such a plant.


Pressurised Water Reactor

As the diagram shown in 'Seeing is Believing' shows though, the Sevres Nuclear Plant (hypothetical name) uses a different system, with a configuration similar to a Boiling Water Reactor.


Boiling Water Reactor

The question arises - WHY would Antefilms show a design of power station that does not exist in their own country - I'd like to stress again that aside from number of reactors, all French nuclear plants are identical.

Another point is that the station is never described specifically as a power-station, although we know it does make a contribution to the Paris Energy Grid - the Chief Engineer also described it as one of the most powerful in the world, even though in comparison to all other Power Stations it is tiny - this suggests that the Plant is something different from a conventional Power Station. In his presentation he also spoke of the construction and design, suggesting it's a new plant.

The answers to these questions may be found in this breif from the French Atomic Energy Commission;

In January 2006 the President announced that the Atomic Energy Commission (CEA) was to embark upon designing a prototype Generation IV reactor to be operating in 2020, bringing forward the timeline for this by some five years. France has been pursuing three Gen IV technologies: gas-cooled fast reactor, sodium-cooled fast reactor, and very high temperature reactor (gas-cooled). While Areva has been working on the last, the main interest in it has been in the USA, as well as South Africa and China. CEA is likely to focus on the fast reactors on the basis that they will produce less waste and will better exploit uranium resources, including the 220,000 tonnes of depleted uranium and some reprocessed uranium stockpiled in France.

If the CEA embarks on the sodium-cooled design, there is plenty of experience to draw on and they would go straight to a demonstration plant - the main innovation would be substituting gas for water as the intermediate coolant. If the gas-cooled fast reactor is selected, that is entirely new and would require a small prototype as first step - the form of its fuel would need to be unique. Neither would operate at a high enough temperature for hydrogen production, so pursuing either of them would leave the very high temperature R&D to the USA and east Asia. The CEA's current plan is to spend about EUR 40 million per year on Gen IV R&D, about half of this on the gas-cooled design, but the new emphasis will require a considerable increase in budget, even with some foreign involvement.

Now, just looking online at these fifth-generation reactors, I found an interesting page on them, and looked up all three of the 5th Gen reactors France is persuing.

Of these, the one most likely to be used at the Sevres Plant is the Very High Temperature Reactor, seen below;



This reactor matches the size and configuration of the reactor containment building seen in the show, and also matches in another way - High Temp. Reactors are designed for (as the name suggests) - ultra high temperature output - high enough to generate hydrogen by splitting water into Hydrogen and Oxygen as the plan shows. The fact that electrical generation is a bonus to this seems to support the show.

The ace in the deck however is what that hydrogen is ideally suited for - again I quote;

"It supplies heat with core outlet temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, which enables applications such as hydrogen production or process heat for the petrochemical industry or others."

Well well well, suddenly having a nuclear station near a petrochemical plant (maps show both are southwest of Kadic and close to each other) makes a lot of sense - this suggests the following;

1. The Sevres Nuclear Plant is the 'small prototype' of a Very High Temperature Reactor mentioned in the breif.

2. The Plant supplies hydrogen and heat to the nearby PetroChemical plant.

3. The Plant has a supplimentary generation station, supplying voltage to Paris and the region.

4. As a Prototype 5th Generation Reactor, the Plant becomes one of the most powerful prototypes in the world, ratifying the Engineer's statement.

The plant might also be an atomic research lab and fuel processing facility, as we see Lead 210 Fuel rods being shipped from it, and Jeremie asked the Chief Engineer questions on theoretical Nuclear Physics - weird if you're talking to the mechanical engineer of a power station, but not if you're talking to the Chief Engineer and Physicist of a Atomic Research Station.

The last question arises though - if the breif says any prototype would have to be finished by 2020, how come it's up and running in 2004/2005.

Well, what fictional resource exists in the world of CL that might advance and spur such technology fifteen years early?
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PROJECT CARTHAGE

Just a thought. Hehe

[Taelia offline]

Whoa, dude! *applauds*

[DELETED offline]

DELETED

[Rudger offline]

*applauds*
I have to agree with warton.
you really did your homework on this.

[Lani offline]

VERY awesome and SUPER interesting!! Great find TB3!

And I kinda find this interesting:

The present situation is due to the French government deciding in 1974, just after the first oil shock, to expand rapidly the country's nuclear power capacity.

Perhaps Project Carthage had something to do with that, along with blocking enemy communications...? Hmm...

Great job!!!

[Rudger offline]

I know that i am going pretty far back with this question and it may have been answered already so i apologize if it has.

I read in the beggining that all people who are involed in a X.A.N.A. attack are "tagged" by the computer.

so my question is wouldnt that include those possesed by X.A.N.A.? and if it does then why dont they remember up to the point of possesion after a RTTP? (Example: if someone was possessed 3 hours after the point they return to why dont they remember those 3 hours?)

Again sorry if it was already answered.

[TB3]

Brilliant idea Lani!

I know that i am going pretty far back with this question and it may have been answered already so i apologize if it has.

I read in the beggining that all people who are involed in a X.A.N.A. attack are "tagged" by the computer.

so my question is wouldnt that include those possesed by X.A.N.A.? and if it does then why dont they remember up to the point of possesion after a RTTP? (Example: if someone was possessed 3 hours after the point they return to why dont they remember those 3 hours?)

Again sorry if it was already answered.

Because the computer supresses all memories in all subjects, except the team members

[Rudger offline]

OK thanks

[YDV offline]

o___o

You know... you continue to amaze me, TB3. Great job!! That's really quite interesting... honestly the thought wouldn't have even occured to me. Maybe Antefilms/Moonscoop is going a lot deeper with this than we think.

Yes, in addition to TB3's response... that's why Sissi never remembered anything, but Aelita whose memories technically hadn't been dealt with outside the computer before, did. (....Has she ever actually been outside of Lyoko during an RTTP? No, wait. Great Day. And The Chips Are Down. ...Nevermind. xD)

I suppose if they were to add another member to the team, they'd have to "register" them with the supercomputer (Like they did with Sissi in my fanfic ^^)

[Taelia offline]

The only way that another person's memories can be unsuppressed is if the memory block feature of the RTTP program is deactivated. I'm sure Franz made the feature.

[Rudger offline]

Another thing I'd like to restress is the idea that the computer gains a Qubit with ever RTTP - in all fairness this must surely be a myth, because by this point it would thus have over 2500 Qubits, which would effectively grant it Godhood, given modern predictions that a 300 qubit computer could simulate the entire universe on a particle level, from Big Bang to the end of time.

although I agree with the Idea that it doesnt get one Qbit with every RTTP I disagree with the prediction of a 300 qbit computer simulating the entire universe from beginig to end because supposedly the univere is infinite and if it is infinite it would require an infinite amount of Q bits to simulate just one point in time. to simulate all of time would be rediculously impossible. on the subject of how many it gets someone somhere in the LTT universe said something about getting one every 500 RTTP but that wouldn't work too well because it would only have 5 Qbits and modern science has created a 7 Qbit system I think that one every 50 or so RTTPs would be right because it would only have about 51-52 Qbits. much less than the Universe simulation size but also much greater than what modern science has come up with.

Its just a thought. fell free to riddicule me as much as desired for my posts which seem to be constantly returnig to past conversations.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

I was posting at TL one day, and I came p wth the Idea that afert XANA had Franz's part of the keys, He put him into the digital void/sea, and that, before the Main power interuption, Aelita started a BACKGROUND program to recompile her Dad's data

also, I thought that since Jeremie had to re-create Aelita's DNA, What if, considering they weren't planning to come back out of the computer, Franz Hopper hiself, deleted his and Aelita's DNA so that there would be absolutly no trace of where he went

Yeah, I hopeyou can read that, I'll fix YAWN! typos later

[Chosen_one offline]

I'd really hate to interrupt on your discussion, but I don't think that the computer that Jeremie uses to operate the scanners and stuff is the same as the supercomputer containing Lyoko.
I use the following quote:
"'Someone's watching me. Someone wants to get rid of me. I wanted to destroy the supercomputer and destroy all the evidence of my activities; that's when I discovered one of its fascinating properties: returning to the past.'" ---Franz Hopper

If the supercalculator (that's what I call the computer that Jeremie uses) and XANA (that's what I call the one containing Lyoko) are the same, that means Franz Hopper built them both. If you look carefully at that quote, Hopper said he "'discovered one of its fascinating properties.'" If he built the supercomputer, surely he would know of the return to the past function because he would've created it. That leads me to believe that the supercalculator was part of Project Carthage, and that Lyoko was created from its ruins when Franz destroyed it.

Edit 1:

The question arises - WHY would Antefilms show a design of power station that does not exist in their own country - I'd like to stress again that aside from number of reactors, all French nuclear plants are identical.

Antefilms probably aimed the show at a younger audience back then and didn't care much about explanations and stuff in real life. They probably just drew a plant out of random.

Edit 2:
About the whole tagging thing... I actually think that Jeremie programmed in who remembers. Just a thought

[TB3]

I'd really hate to interrupt on your discussion, but I don't think that the computer that Jeremie uses to operate the scanners and stuff is the same as the supercomputer containing Lyoko.
I use the following quote:
"'Someone's watching me. Someone wants to get rid of me. I wanted to destroy the supercomputer and destroy all the evidence of my activities; that's when I discovered one of its fascinating properties: returning to the past.'" ---Franz Hopper

If the supercalculator (that's what I call the computer that Jeremie uses) and XANA (that's what I call the one containing Lyoko) are the same, that means Franz Hopper built them both. If you look carefully at that quote, Hopper said he "'discovered one of its fascinating properties.'" If he built the supercomputer, surely he would know of the return to the past function because he would've created it. That leads me to believe that the supercalculator was part of Project Carthage, and that Lyoko was created from its ruins when Franz destroyed it.

Edit 1:

The question arises - WHY would Antefilms show a design of power station that does not exist in their own country - I'd like to stress again that aside from number of reactors, all French nuclear plants are identical.

Antefilms probably aimed the show at a younger audience back then and didn't care much about explanations and stuff in real life. They probably just drew a plant out of random.

Edit 2:
About the whole tagging thing... I actually think that Jeremie programmed in who remembers. Just a thought

No offence Chosen One - but the Supercalculator/Computer is what houses Lyoko (FACT) and Jeremie's console is a terminal for it (FACT).

Also, Franz's discovery of the RTTP function presumably happened when he tried to destroy it when he realised he was being persued by Agents - note that there is damage on the supercomputer - presumably he tried to damage it, and then had a brainwave as to how to achieve an RTTP.

As for the powerplant, it doesn't make sense that wehn all 59 of France's powerplants are identical, that Antefilms drew something different, unless it had a meaning - I might be looking too much into it, but that's what LTT is all about.

Re. tagging - it happens in the show, and yes, Jeremie just tells the computer which persons to NOT put the memory blocks on.

As for Rudger and the Qubits - we know that the computer has not gained a qubit in the period that Jeremie had been operating it - based on that we might be able to calculate the number of RTTP's required for a qubit.

However, that might not be a fixed value - as the computer gains power, it might take less and less RTTPs to simulate another qubit, which makes things trickier still.

Thoughts anyone?

[Chosen_one offline]

Huh? *dies in confusion*

What I meant was that I thought that Jeremie's console wasn't built by Hopper and the supercomputer was ..?

I'm confuzzled.

[animenologist offline]

Hopper created the console and the supercomputer. We know this, because it showed him using it in his diary and in Aelita's flashback in The Key. The console acts as the controls a human has to operate certain functions of the supercomputer, such as the RTTP, virtualization, and materialization. Its a point of human control, that Hopper created over his computer.

As for the discovery to RTTP, he may have also figured it on accident, maybe not realizing that hooking up the supercomputer in such a way (what with bending multiple laws of physics, already in the process), could of either realized the capability or even accidentally set it off. A lot of man's ingenious creations were accidents, after all. All we really know is that he discovered he had the capability of doing so, in a time of desperation. The government agents were closing in on him and he has the world's most powerful computer/weapon within near reach.

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

The Great and Powerful Chupathingy has returned
uh... if you don't understand that don't feel bad

OK, I'm Chupathingy and I've been finding out about this stuff behind the scenes by chatting with TB3 on skype for about a month and then some.

I haven't been able to finish all the essays just yet but I between what I have read and talking to TB I have a solid grasp on lets talk tech.

I'm a computer geek and have been one for ever and have a solid grasp on them, and know the all the main OS from Windows, Macs and even a bit of Unix. I also seem to have a good grasp on physics (surprisingly) so I'll be trying to add some of my knowledge to this in the computer stuff (not trying to show off or anything, I just have a few ideas I want to through out) but TB3 says he is automatically making me a Lyokologist.

Speaking of that, TB and I have also come up with a new theory. I'll let him explain in details or make another post my self, but basically we have come up with a concept that among other things, allows us to get rid of the Space Time Manipulator, make the uses of Zero Point Space more realistic (or at least less complicated) and finally make the expression of Hopper that "he found a fascinating property of the Super computer" (the RTTP) a solid statement.

What I am talking about is... Tachyons

[TB3]

TB3 says he is automatically making me a Lyokologist.

Yes I said this, and it was out of line - sorry to the others if once again I sound like a dictator - I've talked to Chupathingy just now and only if you guys approve will I make him a Lyokologist - once you see what he's devised though guys, you're gonna be welcoming him in with open arms!

Look forward to it

[YDV offline]

Um. The idea of getting rid of the STM makes me VERY uncomfortable, because it sort of screws up like 27% of our material. I'd like an explanation of this new theory.

And, no offense (it's not like I don't trust TB3's judgement or anything), but having you randomly show up and say "i'm a computer geek so I should become a Lyokologist" is gonna work here. Maybe after you.. you know... participate a little more...?

xD; Jeez I sound like a freaking elitist or something. I guess if you guys think it's okay then fine, I don't really mind.

[TB3]

Um. The idea of getting rid of the STM makes me VERY uncomfortable, because it sort of screws up like 27% of our material. I'd like an explanation of this new theory.

And, no offense (it's not like I don't trust TB3's judgement or anything), but having you randomly show up and say "i'm a computer geek so I should become a Lyokologist" is gonna work here. Maybe after you.. you know... participate a little more...?

xD; Jeez I sound like a freaking elitist or something. I guess if you guys think it's okay then fine, I don't really mind.

Yo YDV - how're you doin

Hehe - don't worry about Doug here (Chupathingy) usurping LTT or decimating our theories - he's on the level. I met him through Skype and we've spent a month talking LTT for HOURS at a time - I really reccomend him and you'll see why shortly.

As for getting rid of the STM, Doug randomly tossed out the idea of tachyons (faster-than-light-particles that travel in time) and initially I was hostile to the idea, until we came to the joint realisation that the Supercomputer, being composed of millions of quantum devices, is a massive generator for quantum particles, including tachyons.

Now with this in mind we looked further into Tachyons, and we realised that the means of manipulating, directing and controlling them exist in the supercomputer as well - the quantum fields emitted from it.

Therefore, with this in mind, data can be sent to the past encoded in tachyons, directed by the computer's quantum field - therefore the RTTP becomes, just as Franz said, a 'fascinating property' of the Supercomputer, requiring only new programming to achieve a jump, and not complex new hardware, or hardwiring of existing equipment..

We spent two hours talking it through and coming up with a unified theorem, which we will post for the group's examination in a day or two - trust me, I think this not only supports our theories so far, but increases the 'reality' of our theories, and the inherant elegant simplicity.

Till then guys, take care and keep your mighty brains fermenting - our time is now!

[mooshie offline]

ok, sorry to burst your bubble, but tachyons can only travel in time as easily as other particles, all tachyons are, are theoretical particles generated by supersymmetry theory (part of string theory) that have a spin of -1/2 as they are the partner to a particle that I forget that have spin-0 (I think it's the graviton but I'm not sure) so unless your implying that it can go back in time more easily because it's spinning in a different direction, that's not really all that plausible, by the way, what theory are we using, quantum mechanics, relativity, or string theory? I sggest string theory because you can use the same principles for any size object

[MY85 offline]

Honestly, almost all of the LF authorities doesn't care about LTT at all (not our stuff, sorta confusing, pics streching the threads, free will, etc.)... why would I lie about it? (I admit it was a bit interesting first, then it got tedious, geeky-ish and confusing) But anyways, I decided to butt it.

The Great and Powerful Chupathingy has returned

Great and Powerful, my ***

TB3, I agree with YDV on not giving Chupathingy the Lyokologist banner, until he can prove it and claim not to be boasty like he did when he butted in here. And I know before you gave me the offer to have it on my signature, but I declined to it.

Anyways... Storage Virtualization... (might be fake, but it could work for debates here)

It's my first (not last, also the 1st time a LF Mod or Admin posts here) time for me to post on LTT2. I'll be back just to lock the thread... again (whenever that happens).

And sir TB3... link all of your pics if possible, please.

I think TB3 will be pissed off right now. *hides*

[TB3]

Rodri, yes I am a little aggravated by your post, because it seems frankly that you're bitter towards this project and I can't for the love of me think why - and while you yourself might not enjoy it, evidently a lot of people do (check the number of views for the original thread).

Thanks however for the link, and I reckon there's some useful stuff in there.

As for whether Chupathingy deserves to be a Lyokologist, I leave that up to the group's decision, as I already said, once he's made some posts and contributed - I'm sure most of the people in the group will find them at least interesting, if not fascinating.

That said, I hope any bitterness that's appeared in the last few posts can stop here - this thread has always been peaceful, the odd debate aside, and I hope it can stay that way.

Thanks for your time