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Franz Hopper (The episode)

Talk about the episodes of the original series here! (Seasons 1-4)

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Was it aweseome?

H*ll yes! 20/10
15
45%
OH YEAH 10/10
7
21%
Pretty awesome 7-9/10
9
27%
Kind of awesome 5-6/10
2
6%
Not awesome 2-4/10
0
No votes
Awesome? Are you crazy? It sucked! 0-1/10
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 33

Postby Mewberries151 » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:53 pm

SamBlob wrote:
Mewberries151 wrote:In defense of Yumi, Ulrich and Odd's behavior in this episode, I can only say that the idea of "cell degeneration" from the scanners is a scary thought indeed. "Cell degeneration", I believe, is the technical description of cancer, which means that this episode actually touched on a really serious concept. Yumi, in this perspective, had a great deal of right to be severely upset at this revelation considering she's the one who was supposedly suffering from it. Ulrich had a good reason to be upset because, keeping in mind the idea behind "cell degeneration", it would mean that his best friend, the girl he loves, is going to suffer a very painful end. Odd, I believe, was more or less up set for the same reason.

Now while Jeremie may not have known about the "possibility of cell degeneration", the problem would have been that it had happened from him scanning them into Lyoko incorrectly, making it inadvertently his fault. You'll notice though a very important difference in the way the three of them treat him. Odd's angry and he gives off a smart remark about Jeremie being a "mad scientist". Ulrich's very unhappy, and states more moresely than accusingly that an apology from Jeremie isn't going to help Yumi now. But Yumi's reaction, bearing in mind that she's the one with the "cell degeneration", is actually the most understanding and kind of all. She's upset at the idea of it, and she does ask to be alone, but she does not turn the blame on Jeremie. She has the greatest reason to turn away from him, but she doesn't truly. Yumi has the most admirable reaction to the situation.


And this is why CL is so great; they pay attention to the characters.

Then, of course, there's Jeremy's only defender, Aelita, who is eternally grateful to Jeremy for all that he's done with the scanners.


Indeed! Indeed! :D They pay great attention to the characters and how they should and will react to certain situations. :)

That is absolutely a great point. Aelita also didn't turn away from him, and was even attempting to make the others see reason. Her line to Ulrich that Jeremie and the scanners are the reason she's here was very moving and likely had Ulrich thinking the situation over a little better afterwards. I can't blame him for being upset (and he never entirely accused Jeremie of anything regarding the scanners), but Aelita putting things so perfectly into perspective like that was brilliant.
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Postby bduddy » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:55 pm

From what little we learned about it in Bio 1-2, I believe that cancer is actually uncontrolled cell multiplication, which makes it basically the opposite of "cell degeneration". But that still is a pretty scary thought...
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Postby Mewberries151 » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:30 am

bduddy wrote:From what little we learned about it in Bio 1-2, I believe that cancer is actually uncontrolled cell multiplication, which makes it basically the opposite of "cell degeneration". But that still is a pretty scary thought...


Ah, you have it correct. Cancer is technically cell multiplication. I had it backwards. What Yumi would be experiencing would be a sort of continual chemotherapy, if you will, and chemotherapy can have absolutely terrible results (even when in a controlled environment like a hospital) since it is indeed the degeneration and destruction of cells. Either way, this episode subtlely touched a really mature and delicate situation, and I have to say that I appreciate this episode far more now than I did beforehand. Season 2 has hit some really serious ideas, and handled them in a really brilliant manner that keeps the rating but gets the point across. Another of CL's great attributes that I suppose one could call "subtle maturity".
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Postby MY85 » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:38 am

Mewberries151 wrote:
bduddy wrote:From what little we learned about it in Bio 1-2, I believe that cancer is actually uncontrolled cell multiplication, which makes it basically the opposite of "cell degeneration". But that still is a pretty scary thought...


Ah, you have it correct. Cancer is technically cell multiplication. I had it backwards. What Yumi would be experiencing would be a sort of continual chemotherapy, if you will, and chemotherapy can have absolutely terrible results (even when in a controlled environment like a hospital) since it is indeed the degeneration and destruction of cells. Either way, this episode subtlely touched a really mature and delicate situation, and I have to say that I appreciate this episode far more now than I did beforehand. Season 2 has hit some really serious ideas, and handled them in a really brilliant manner that keeps the rating but gets the point across. Another of CL's great attributes that I suppose one could call "subtle maturity".


*wishes he could see the episodes after that* Now attacking with cancer cells is wicked for XANA.

Cancer: desease produced by change in the cells behaviour, given by modifications at genetic information provided by the own cells. Because of alterations, they multiply in a abrupt way and starts destroying tissues and other parts from the human body.
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Postby MY85 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:36 pm

I should had said something yesterday about this episode, but right now I will.

This episode was very good, but it made me felt at the begining that I should had watched some other previous episodes.

This episode is one piece of real good evidence why Jeremie is by far the most intelligent person from his group. They all know Hopper created Lyoko (for military reasons, but I'm not sure, since he lied to the gang and trapped them) and anything Hopper could said about it could not be a lie. Odd, Ulrich and Yumi to be tricked is just normal, so they believe in the geek (well, this idea by seeing how much they trusted in Jeremie for everything they have done at Lyoko). Aelita's case is like to believe in her own creator, and that would seem very logical to her. But Jeremie will always have to doubt about things, since he has been much involved about searching about Lyoko and Hopper.

And as I said before with a friend from LF, we don't have anything new about Lyoko (I trust my friend's words, since I haven't watched everything yet... soon, I will) and that maybe Hopper's trapped in some powerful guardian or maybe he's just dead.

Oh, and I found Odd hliarious when he pulled off his boxing moves. Lyoko scenes rocked. And the oldschool song for the TSV, made me remember Season 1.

Good episode, in the end.
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Postby Dylan0513 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:40 pm

How did you see it Rodri? Webcam or just on your channel?
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Postby MY85 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:45 pm

XANA wrote:How did you see it Rodri? Webcam or just on your channel?


Good question.

The answer: the same way as TB3 did. Although, the webcam idea I wanna do it for the last two episodes.
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Postby Dylan0513 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:46 pm

RoDrInCuBuS wrote:
XANA wrote:How did you see it Rodri? Webcam or just on your channel?


Good question.

The answer: the same way as TB3 did. Although, the webcam idea I wanna do it for the last two episodes.


You didn't really answer my question, lol. And there are 4 episodes left.
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Postby Mewberries151 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:15 pm

TB3 wrote:And then he gets to do the fantastic villain-talk that we've yet to hear in the show (he and seems to be enjoying it as well) - 'you'll never stop me' - 'admit defeat' - all little nuggets of gold.


XD That is indeed a scene that proves one particularly important thing about XANA's villainy. As efficient as he is, being a computer,...he still doesn't adhere to the Evil Overlord's Rulebook. Not only did he "monologue" (giving Aelita enough time to infect the Schyphozoa), but he also gave the "I'm invincible; you can't stop me" statement as you said. Overlord's Rulebook dictates that that's just asking for fate to prove you wrong. :*D I love classic villainy and it's funny seeing it come from XANA (well sort of...) :D
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Postby MY85 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:34 pm

Mewberries151 wrote:As efficient as he is, being a computer,...he still doesn't adhere to the Evil Overlord's Rulebook.


Terminator 3 comes in mind, even if Arnold wasn't the bad guy. I am a machine! is the quote in mind...

Mewberries151 wrote:Not only did he "monologue" (giving Aelita enough time to infect the Schyphozoa), but he also gave the "I'm invincible; you can't stop me" statement as you said. Overlord's Rulebook dictates that that's just asking for fate to prove you wrong. :*D I love classic villainy and it's funny seeing it come from XANA (well sort of...) :D


When XANA-Hopper said that, I was begging for Jeremie to pop up and tell him to bug off. Tv screen villians don't make fast decisions at the most important moments or when they need to improvise (those events that when they think someone's already dead), that's why they always lose.

I have another question: has XANA ever tried taking posession on more than just one human being?
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Postby YDV » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:50 pm

...You mean per activated Tower? I don't think it's possible.
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Postby Cassius335 » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:07 am

Any episode now, I should think.

We know he can handle multiple life-forms, otherwise "Swarm Attack" would have featured a single hornet. Ditto the rats in "Plague".
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Postby YDV » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:56 pm

But humans are much more complicated; thus why it took him so many RTTP's to be able to possess them.
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Postby SamBlob » Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:15 pm

Cassius335 wrote:Any episode now, I should think.

We know he can handle multiple life-forms, otherwise "Swarm Attack" would have featured a single hornet. Ditto the rats in "Plague".


"Swarming Attack" did start with a single hornet (in the science lab) and "Plagued" did start with a single rat (in the cafeteria). Each infected the others of its kind.
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Postby Mewberries151 » Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:57 pm

RoDrInCuBuS wrote:I have another question: has XANA ever tried taking posession on more than just one human being?

and
SamBlob wrote:"Swarming Attack" did start with a single hornet (in the science lab) and "Plagued" did start with a single rat (in the cafeteria). Each infected the others of its kind.


"Attack of the Zombies" seems to be the only example of XANA "possessing" more than one person. However, the "zombies" weren't really true possessions, since they lacked all the average "possession" powers other than abnormal strength, and they weren't nearly as clever as any of XANA's possession victims in a fight. ^^;
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Postby SamBlob » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:16 pm

Mewberries151 wrote:
RoDrInCuBuS wrote:I have another question: has XANA ever tried taking posession on more than just one human being?

and
SamBlob wrote:"Swarming Attack" did start with a single hornet (in the science lab) and "Plagued" did start with a single rat (in the cafeteria). Each infected the others of its kind.


"Attack of the Zombies" seems to be the only example of XANA "possessing" more than one person. However, the "zombies" weren't really true possessions, since they lacked all the average "possession" powers other than abnormal strength, and they weren't nearly as clever as any of XANA's possession victims in a fight. ^^;


"Attack of the Zombies" was essentially a human form of "Plagued" and "Swarming Attack". XANA only really "possessed" Kiwi. Kiwi infected the others with the zombie plague.
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Postby bduddy » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:45 pm

RoDrInCuBuS wrote:When XANA-Hopper said that, I was begging for Jeremie to pop up and tell him to bug off. Tv screen villians don't make fast decisions at the most important moments or when they need to improvise (those events that when they think someone's already dead), that's why they always lose.


XANA seems to be the leader in this area. The events that he directly leads always, of course, fall short, but this is generally avoidable; one, in particular (the releasing of Aelita when he was controlling her in [can never remember episode names]) was a stupid mistake, and simply not stopping would mean he would have achieved his goal.

(Why am I calling XANA a "he"? How can a virus/OS/whatever have a gender?)
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Postby YDV » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:05 pm

Yes. XANA is a "male". Didn't you hear his "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!!!" voice? And the gang called him a "he" before. ;)
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Postby bduddy » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:10 pm

Well, maybe they're just sexist. >_> And what if *it* had to synthesize a voice, and randomly chose a male one?
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Postby YDV » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:20 pm

I actually think it's because a female XANA would clash with Aelita. And.. (I am NOT sexist, not in the least bit...) it might not sound as scary. So blame the producers (except for Jerome Mouscardet, because he might be coming to LF one day and we all need to be EXTRA EXTRA nice to him!! lol).
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Postby Mewberries151 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:29 pm

bduddy wrote:
RoDrInCuBuS wrote:When XANA-Hopper said that, I was begging for Jeremie to pop up and tell him to bug off. Tv screen villians don't make fast decisions at the most important moments or when they need to improvise (those events that when they think someone's already dead), that's why they always lose.


XANA seems to be the leader in this area. The events that he directly leads always, of course, fall short, but this is generally avoidable; one, in particular (the releasing of Aelita when he was controlling her in [can never remember episode names]) was a stupid mistake, and simply not stopping would mean he would have achieved his goal.

(Why am I calling XANA a "he"? How can a virus/OS/whatever have a gender?)


XD No worries there. "He" is the proper English term for an identity who's gender is unknown. As in "Whomever opened all the windows had better make himself known." The gender of the perpetrator might not be known, but it's grammatically correct to use the pronoun "he". It harkens back to the Romantic languages where "Il" could mean "he" or "it".

But enough of me rambling...I think the episode you mean in which XANA lets Aelita go, is "St. Valentines Day". The Scyphozoa had Aelita and was rapidly draining her memories because neither Odd not Ulrich could reach it. Odd however had been told by Jeremie to fire shots at Aelita until her life points were at 10 (one more would bring it to zero). Jeremie had figured out by then that XANA no longer was out to destroy Aelita, but wanted her alive to steal her memories. He thought he might be able to fool XANA by making it look like they were willing to devirtualize Aelita rather than see him steal her memories. XANA didn't risk calling their bluff and had the Scyphozoa retreat.

It's true that if XANA had kept going, and called Jeremie's bluff, he would have won (as there's no way Jeremie would have had Odd shoot her lifepoints down to zero). But XANA, being a computer, thinks like one. The logical decision would have been to shoot Aelita a final time in order to stop XANA from stealing her memories and using them to grow stronger and do more harm. Thus why XANA likely figured Jeremie would go through with it. However, as a certain Vulcan would put it, humans can be quite illogical. ^^;
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Postby YDV » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:31 pm

XANA: IT'S NOT LOGICAL!!! NOT LOGICALL!!!!!

:P
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Postby bduddy » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:18 am

Based on XANA's Kiss, XANA clearly knows more than that about the way the group works. I am unable to attribute that blunder to anything but a plot device.
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