S4 Episode 9: I'd Rather Not Talk About It

[Mewberries151]

First response: Krabs require two-three compared to where they hit. Megas, being the strongest, require one unless they guard, which is proven in "Code: Earth" and a Season 2 episode I can't remember. Also, that's when the Skid needed time to be completed. If he packed up the modifications and original plans onto a disc or multiple disks, he wouldn't need to worry.

Counter response: Megatank laser walls take 50 LPs each. Krabe's have lasers on their underbellies which can devirtualize in one hit.

Also, Jeremie's said before in recent episodes, "Maiden Voyage" being one that the Skid would still be a disaster to try to reprogram. And furthermore, keeping all of the plans and modifications on discs wouldn't solve the fact that you'd still need to reprogram it. It's not a picture file one can just transport and upload everywhere. ^^;

Second: OBJECTION! (:) ) *Slaps desk.* No one takes that kind of abuse without some response. It's human nature to confront threats and raising voice with equal force, and no person in their right mind would take that kind of abuse. The people I saw had been doing it for several days, so I expected them to say nothing, but when it comes to someone who fights back, I find that people like that are more prepared than those who just decide to take it lying down. To fight back proves you are prepared to take down the enemy, not taking the abuse. Willingly taking that kind of strain and anguish? Not at first.

Overruled: They have and they do. It's also human nature to give in to fear and/or over-aggression and respond to it with silence and obedience. That's the pack mentality.

And it doesn't matter how many days you do it. Most people will either give in and come quitely or talk back and the ones that fight back (particularly in Boot Camp regimens) are punished and/or slapped down even harder (metaphorically speaking).

Again, I say...have you ever been to a serious athletic camp or sports training camp? It's an eye opening experience.

Third: There's extension, and there's overkill. The Balance Beam? The Rope Belay? The Climbing Net? The only reason I'm not saying that Aelita isn't wanting of this physical training is because she's on Lyoko, and except when her wings are involved, (which she should use more often, just because the extra mobility and speed allow for faster tower deactivation.) she does need a LITTLE more. For her, it was just mildly unacceptable. For Jeremie, it made no sense. At the beginning of the episode, he knew his physical limitations, and knew there was no point to this. Hell, if Jim had been smarter with this "being a man" stuff, he would've realized it.

I think Mewmic put it best. Jeremie wouldn't be in the shape he's in if he'd just gone to PE class like he should have. Granted Jeremie has good reasons to cut PE, but the fact still remains that he's cut it and in Jim's eyes, for reasons that weren't very good.

A good coach is not going to hold up the entire class just because the kid who "never attends his sessions" can't keep up. That's just bad teaching and doesn't help anyone learn or get better. The others can't improve if they're constantly back-tracking or standing around waiting for the one that didn't put the effort in, in the first place.

Lyoko has nothing to do with this. The others have attended PE...Jeremie has not (at least not nearly as much).

Not to mention that Jeremie gets his daily workout everyday. I mean, going to the factory during Xana attacks and to maintain Lyoko/Skid/etc, Gym Class, climbing on top of BUILDINGS to get a disk...It can't be denied.

Yes, but you cannot compare that to a class designed to hone muscles and give a full body workout. Running only works out one section of the body. As for the climbing in "Maiden Voyage", he'd already been having trouble in gym earlier that day with the same sort of exercise. He only made the climb because the will and reason was there (protecting his friends)...nothing was on the line during the original wall climb and originally there was nothing on the line in this episode either.

[Carth]

...gu?

Well, I gathered a lot out of that, but I personally liked this episode. Why? It was funny. Held some eye and ear candy. Not exactly plot-sound, but hopefully that'll happen later on.

I think the military-reminescent training, whether right or not, was completely in Jim's character. He's a military-type guy, so this would make sense to him. Besides, it was really cute when they made mistakes. Like Ulrich's vertigo coming back to haunt us again.

One thing I REALLY liked was the images of Jim during his monologue. I hope they use that more in other episodes.

I couldn't exactly understand what Xanliam was saying. They need to improve his voice. A lot. But at least he's learning some more words.

Jeremie. Jeremie Jeremie Jeremie. With the last episode, he was teetering on the edge of 'rotter' in my book. Now, he's redeemed himself slightly- he's really applying himself to other things, and gaining back his personality. That's good.

Generally, it's not the way I'd have done it...but it's a way. (Of course, if it was the way i'd have done it, Xanliam'd be talking a lot more and there would have been at least five awkward moments.) I wonder when the actual juicy plot stuff starts. I'm not going to be a pessimist and say the show's going downhill...but the juicy plot stuff's what we want.

And I once again ask Taelia not to judge an entire episode just by the way Jim acts. Yay.

8/10.

*hopes for something excellent out of Hot Shower/Don't Jump Yumi*

[Aurabolt offline]

How many times has the Krabs lower beam been used successfully? Very few, and their primary attack was the one I was referring. Yumi and Odd weren't hit in "Code Earth" before that point, and they devirtualized from the Mega laser wall.

That's fine, and no; I've never been to a SPORTS training camp. as I said, I have been to a MILITARY training camp. You want to watch people psychologically break down and see the scarring? You go there. Man, it's a good thing I can't be drafted if it ever starts up again.

Then let the slower kid finish up before the others. It's not Jeremie's fault, since individual physical ability isn't just measured by exertion, but also genetics and personality choices. I've been at the back of running lines before, and the gym teachers were kind enough to understand. Jeremie is someone who expands his mind over his body, and that's where his abilities lie. I fear for this wish for extra training; I knew someone who changed completely from being a gaming, anime-watching, and web-browsing person to a jock. I don't think Jeremie would take the same viewpoint, but I do think the changes in his interest might hurt the group and their reactions to him, if only slightly....except for Aelita. I don't think her view of him being the person that brought her to happiness, friendship, and possibly more will ever really change.

*Cuts off J/A recording in his mind.* Sorry, my bad. ^_^;

[Taelia offline]

I agree with you, Aurabolt. The kids didn't deserve it.

[Mewberries151]

How many times has the Krabs lower beam been used? Very few, and their primary attack was the one I was referring. Yumi and Odd weren't hit in "Code Earth" before that point, and they devirtualized from the Mega laser wall.

I don't think it was ever called into question whether or not it was a primary or "often used" attack. I was simply saying that only the Megatanks and the Krabes have the ability to devirtualize in 2 hits or less.

Creepers do not, to my knowledge, which was the original point of discussion on this part of the debate.

That's fine, and no; I've never been to a SPORTS training camp. as I said, I have been to a MILITARY training camp. You want to watch people psychologically break down and see the scarring? You go there. Man, it's a good thing I can't be drafted if it ever starts up again.

And if you want to see that Jim's coaching techniques are neither unusual nor overly harsh, and furthermore often the chosen method of camps aiming to train the future pro athletes, go to a sports camp. Don't criticize Jim's PE training methods otherwise, because I'm telling you they're neither out of the ordinary nor are they overtly cruel.

Then let the slower kid finish up before the others. It's not Jeremie's fault, since individual physical ability isn't just measured by exertion, but also genetics and personality choices. I've been at the back of running lines before, and the gym teachers were kind enough to understand. Jeremie is someone who expands his mind over his body, and that's where his abilities lie. I fear for this wish for extra training; I knew someone who changed completely from being a gaming, anime-watching, and web-browsing person to a jock. I don't think Jeremie would take the same viewpoint, but I do think the changes in his interest might hurt the group and their reactions to him, if only slightly....except for Aelita. I don't think her view of him being the person that brought her to happiness, friendship, and possibly more will ever really change.

*Cuts off J/A recording in his mind.* Sorry, my bad. ^_^;

Oh for heavens sakes...if Aelita only liked Jeremie because he was smart then honestly, Jeremie can do better. Aelita likes Jeremie because he's a sweet and caring young boy who's utterly devoted to her, her safety, her friends' safety, and the safety of the planet beyond anything else.

So Jeremie liked the training course and liked being complimented. That doesn't mean he's going to go the 360 and turn into a jock, and even if he does, his friends shouldn't change their opinion of him simply because he decides to change his interests. True friends like you for who you are deep down.

At any rate, I digress from the original debate. "Letting the slower kids finish up" is not always an option nor is it always the best course. It holds the class back and prevents the other classmates from improving, and it's not fair when it's just a few people, particularly one person, to do that. Furthermore, while perhaps Jeremie's genetics may play a part in his lack of prowess in gym (something that may or may not be negated when one observes his father), it is undoubtedly certain that the fact that he cuts PE doesn't help it any better.

[YDV offline]

Mahaha. A Jim-ful episode. >3

Boot camp was really amusing to watch. xD; Poor Jeremie.

And he <i>finally</i> would rather talk about it! :D That made me happy.

Gah. The Americanization bugged me though. >>; Unless he magically lived in the US, it was probably the ESA, not NASA. Oh well.

XANAFIED PIG. WIN.

And srsly, Yumi is so awesome~ >DD She kicked *ss today, no doubt.

Though 'twas a bit of a filler, I still liked it. Yes, Aelita ran through a tower! 8DD

[Aurabolt offline]

I never said that Jeremie wasn't a caring, sweet boy. I just said that her views would'nt change either way, which is implied to assume that he was caring and sweet. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

And I didn't say overly cruel; I said cruel, which is enough for me. Sure, people train in different methods, and many different methods work; I can't deny that, because I've seen it happen. But when you start pressing the envelope of the human being to incorporate any sort of damage which could be short or long term, it doesn't matter. It isn't right.

I will give that Jeremie is less than the others, and I said outright that he probably wouldn't change. What good is this to him other than he might be able to take an extra XANA hit or two without getting knocked out? Get the confidence to step up to the social differences at school? Minor stuff, from what I see.

[Taelia offline]

As far as I can tell, Jim's behavior is just as bad as most of Season 1.

[Mewberries151]

And I didn't say overly cruel; I said cruel, which is enough for me. Sure, people train in different methods, and many different methods work; I can't deny that, because I've seen it happen. But when you start pressing the envelope of the human being to incorporate any sort of damage which could be short or long term, it doesn't matter. It isn't right.

And I say that the way he was training them was not cruel at all. Tough and maybe a tad on the grueling side, but certainly not cruel. Cruel would be giving them no breaks (and he gave them breaks), and working them well into the night (which he also clearly didn't) without rest. Cruel would have been beating and or being really nasty verbally to them when they messed up, which he also didn't (giving them extra push-ups doesn't count and the little "Oh come on, you can do better"s that he gave them are paltry).

I will give that Jeremie is less than the others, and I said outright that he probably wouldn't change. What good is this to him other than he might be able to take an extra XANA hit or two without getting knocked out? Get the confidence to step up to the social differences at school? Minor stuff, from what I see.

It would make all the difference. Not only would he be able to take an extra hit or two and not be knocked out (which might allow him time to program something else in to help the gang or even get away from his attacker). What's more, now that he can also climb and run better, he'll be able to avoid and maybe even completely escape attackers sent by XANA which will allow him to better perform his duties as the gang's go-to computer person. He might even be able to mildly defend himself now against them...which would certainly be a big help because he definitely is vulnerable.

Not minor at all in my opinion.

[Aurabolt offline]

You also forgot what he said at the beginning of the training. Maggots? Worthless? I don't think those were minor.

And when the enemy is superhuman and invulnerable, what can physical combat do? Usually, it's either run or stall, and if Jeremie left that room, the clone or possessed being would just attack the super calculator, destroying any chance of the group's return or of an RTTP.

[Jinnai offline]

As far as I can tell, Jim's behavior is just as bad as most of Season 1.

You lost me there. The Jim of Season 1 probably wouldn't even let the kids take breaks, let alone spend some time talking to them about the past he usually would rather not talk about.

[Kamekai offline]

You also forgot what he said at the beginning of the training. Maggots? Worthless? I don't think those were minor.

Umm... In the real army, it's much, much worse than that. I'm sure Lyoko Soldier could tell you.

[Taelia offline]

Maggots? Worthless?

Now I KNOW Jim is a monster.

[Mewberries151]

You also forgot what he said at the beginning of the training. Maggots? Worthless? I don't think those were minor.

In the grand scale of the other names he could have called them, in addition to how he could have insulted their families...that is absolutely minor.

and when the enemy is superhuman and invulnerable, what can physical combat do? Usually, it's either run or stall, and if Jeremie left that room, the clone or possessed being would just attack the super calculator, destroying any chance of the group's return or of an RTTP.

And you forget that, to them, time is always of the essence and any time that can be bought or saved can make all the difference. Each time a tower is activated it's a race against time to stop it. Jeremie being KO-ed loses them a lot of valuable time that they sometimes can't spare. If Jeremie is able to avoid being knocked unconscious, or even better, fend off the specter attacks somewhat on his own (even if only temporarily), that makes a huge amount of difference.

Jeremie seems to have a decent idea of how to fix the super computer anyway after it's been damaged. What's more, most of the specters seem to be singularly focused on getting rid of him (and Aelita), and not so much the super computer anymore.


At any rate, Jinnai and Kamekai have also made excellent points on Jim's behavior, as have Carth and YDV (...I think that's YDV ; ).

Maggots? Worthless?

Now I KNOW Jim is a monster.

Taelia, please stop it...that's really becoming annoying and you know it isn't true.

That's a huge overexaggeration.

[Aurabolt offline]

Now, they are right, Taelia. There are worse insults in the army, but I don't think it condones what he said. Personally, the training method is one he believes to work, but it doesn't always seem right. Usually, I don't have a problem with Jim. Today's episode really seemed like too much.

It's not like I'm blocking out what you're saying. Surely, what he was doing is valid, but I have to find the faults in it. It seemed rather harsh, comparatively. And from what I've seen him do for these kids from the stuff he doesn't ever recall doing (Code Earth/False Start), this did seem over the top.

[Taelia offline]

Yeah, maybe I am exxaggerating.

[Kamekai offline]

Hey, guys, read my review on the first page, and you might look at Jim in a different light.

[Reploid CB]

Personally, I think the "maggots" and "worthless" comments are probably making fun of the old "tough drill sergeant" character that's been seen a lot for a long time now. I think R. Lee Ermey is famous for that particular role...

[Taelia offline]

Still, regardless, the way he handled the training part of it is unacceptable in my friend Elizabeth's and my book. Calling them worrthless is NOT the best way to instill them with any confidence. If she were here, she'd agree with me 100%.

[Kamekai offline]

Worked for Jeremie. And 'sides, Jim actually went through all the trouble to set that stuff up by himself. And if you notice, Jim put his life on the line for Jeremie. This is how that drill sergeant stuff works: Never complement them, so when you do compliment them, it means so much more. Like I said, worked for Jeremie

[AmericanLyokoTeam offline]

[Critical reviewer, take what you will from it, don't stress if you did like the episode, etc.]

Yeesh, I'm used to Lyoko presenting largely filler episodes these days. We're in the middle of a long season, and I don't expect every episode to be an action festival or cause serious plot development. But then we get something like this and I wonder why they didn't write the other half so to speak.

I'd Rather Not Talk About It does a few things right. Jeremie and Jim talking (except for the caribou poop bits) was pretty smart and interesting. Jim comes across as bipolar on competence, as his training program both seems to teach the right things and he's able to fend the boar well intially and is brave in the face of danger later. Yet the flashframes on his story (WAVY EFFECTS, YECCHK) show him as largely making all this up.

What there WAS of motorbike stunts and Yumi on William action (har!) was nicely executed, but at this point, I've begun to expect nothing less. Unfair to the powers that be? Maybe, but if they're capable of providing this consistantly I can't award them over and above points for it.

And then there's the rest of the episode. A lot of running and complaining. Sure Jeremie was being unfair, but he's the stereotypical brain and has to work that way sometimes. Jim wasn't much better but at least largely wanted what was good for them instead of just gripeing.

And so the review is short because the content was short. There wasn't enough meat in character development, action, or plot advancement to make up a full ammount, so you're left with a sort of salty sweet golden final frame of Jeremie appreciating Jim's compliment and willingness to work in the future. Wodner if this will be a recurring thing like the Subdigitals subplot. The plot bunny ideas of this being Jeremie on Lyoko foreshadowing or Jeremie at least being able to do the hard work/real life fighting too are ultimately more interesting than the ep itself unfortuantely.

For a filler ep not even up to the usual Lyoko filler standards, but with a few interesting frames and comments here and there anyway, I can do no more than award a 5/10.

[sylentnyte offline]

Time for a Lotte Review..I don't make nearly as much as I should.

I'll say for once, I enjoyed this episode.
It's refreshing to see more earth time for the team, they do need a break. The first parts were amusing, check Aelita's sly smile when they ponder who can train them, other than Jeremie. As for our favorite P.E teacher....Jim isn't nearly as harsh as some coaches I knew in school, infact, he's probley alot more encouraging than most. Plus you got to see things from his POV, he's not aware of the kids' 'extracurricular activities', and if he was, he'd probley support them about their wanting to train. Which kind of points for my wanting Jim to join he group as earth backup. But that's a totally different topic.

As for the Lyoko part of the show, Yumi shined. She gets in a bit more action from last week's episode and doesn't disapoint. William is showing improvment in his vocabulary, thank goodness. And here I thought he'd be lessened to nothing more than the lines of GK's Ulrich. And the Xanaified pig is a nice retro tactic from our favorite villain.


Highlights for this week:

1. Jim and the kids bonding.
2. Xana, give Will a break...or at least a smog check
3. Jeremy learns to enjoy a little physical work.

[Cassius335 offline]

Edit: MewmiC, if you recall....Toph's training sent a boulder at Aang! At least even with boot camp training, they aren't trying to kill the soldiers outright....Katara's was much better; during the first season, it is clear that compassionate, but stern words and gentle encouragement was the right way to go. Toph was pretty reckless, from where I was viewing.

Hmm. That was Aaang, mind you. Imagune if they'd been training Zuko...

And I'm not exactly fond of Boot camp mentality either. Just because it's common doesn't make it humane.

[Malkmusian offline]

The episode was good, but does Aelita have to faint every time she falls down? I don't.

Score: 8/10

[JesusFreak offline]

6/10. This episode wan't as bad on its second viewing but it still needs a bit more work. First of all the good things:

1. It was nice how we got to see a different, more Code: Earth style of Jim around the end (and this time no RTTP!)
2. the backround and lighting effects were stellar. I LOVED the forest chase scene
3. Jeremie's gonna get into shape. Maybe he will be so athletic he will realize those horrible pants need to be replaced by the pants in the Code Lyoko event skethc!
4. Jer's pretty resourceful out of his natural habitat.

And bad:
1. A possesed boar? A POSSESSED BOAR?! Come on! the giant food monster was better than that! Hey Xana, at least posses an animal capable of some vertical mobility!
2. What did William say? a faulty shot? He was pretty incomprehensible.
3. The flashbacks were pretty stupid.
4. The caribou poop thing was a pretty hokey attempt to make the kiddies laugh.
5. A below average Lyoko section. I swear, the way William's losing effectiveness, He'll be a Kankrelot by the finale.
6. The special effect for the cheeks. It looked like they got two massive bruises somehow.