Season 3 Episode 13: Final Round (Last Round in French)

[Vora Lyoko offline]

TO THE LETS TALK TECH TOPIC.

(It answers most of your questions.)

[animenologist offline]

He thought of it as a fricking video game, for goodness sakes! That was pretty stupid of Will.

It was pretty stupid to not virtualize him on lyoko the night they initiated him and showed him the ropes.

Ohhhh and you all are saying how they where all serious. Bull. That night he was initiated it certainly didn't seem so serious. They were bragging to the newbie and acting like it was no big deal.

And I remind you, Ulrich has amnesia and came to lyoko, Odd had to show him the ropes to even get him ready for battle.

Bleh, senseless William bashing just because you don't like him he can do nothing right.

By show them the ropes, you mean show him how to fight, or experience XANA's deviousness? The difference between Amnesia and Final Round is that they needed Ulrich to be battle ready, because the situation called for it, but what happened with William wasn't that he was a bad fighter, it was that he didn't follow orders or protocol.

In Amnesia, they were having a somewhat difficult time, and needed backup to handle the monsters. The only backup was a confused Ulrich who had forgotten how to fight. So they had Odd reteach him. They didn't bother with teaching him how devious XANA can be because at the time, his plans are somewhat juvenile compared to now, and everything will go back to the way it is with a return trip after this is all over.

In Final Round, XANA has become treacherous, and good fighting prowess is no longer the only necessity, there has to be some caution, otherwise it becomes a hinderance, like what happened in The Pretender. I don't exactly see how you can show an initiated how devious XANA can be without missions. Trying to show him the ropes like Odd did with Ulrich is like trying to train a rookie for a bank robbery by taking him to a firing range. William's fighting prowess is not in question, what he didn't do is follow orders, thus the entire lecture about hanging back and how devious and dangerous XANA can be, the several warnings to run from the Scyphozoa, the order to stick with Aelita after the key was pressed.

I'm not what you would call a William-hater, my feelings concerning him are rather ambivalent in similar leagues to say Milly, Tamiya, Emilie, or Samantha. I disagree with his joining them not only because he is quite the hot-head, but from a story pov, he lacked the seniority and development of some of the other major secondary characters and that he recieved a visable Lyoko form before our own Jeremie. But from the actions that occurred, William deserved most of the blame for the escalation of the situation. He did not heed the warnings of his seniors, he disobeyed orders from his coordinator, I don't care if he's an initiate, that seems like his fault due to his actions.

[UltimaHedgie offline]

This argument has been going back and forth for quite a while now. Animenologist, I totally agree with you. The difference is not of skill, but of following orders.

William was too cocky for his own good, which is apparently why Yumi didn't trust him at first. It proved to be a good thing for her to do so, but she finally gave in and it turned out just as she anticipated. A complete and total mess.

Anyway, truly, I've got to explain my feelings about this episode. It aired a few days ago, but I'm still feeling the effects--and I probably will until I see more episodes.

The only time I had this same feeling of awe and surprise before in the past, for such a prolonged amount of time, was when I read the surprising ending of the book 'Thr3e' by Ted Dekker. And yet again I get this feeling. I'm still shivering over the surprising effects of such a thrilling ending.

God I hope Winter passes by quickly...

[Vora Lyoko offline]

I think we still have Winter in March. Just slightly.

[Xanadu offline]

and that he recieved a visable Lyoko form before our own Jeremie.

That REALLY made me mad. As an avid Jeremie fan (with a general dislike of William) I nearly cried when the episode eneded and Jeremie STILL hadn't been given a Lyoko form and William had! I wrote a fan-fic and gave Jeremie a Lyoko form, why can't Moonscope?

And speaking of fan-fiction, this entire season completely ruined my fan-fic. So many things (like Odd's future flash) were explained or changed that now my story is completely unplausible. I can't finish it now... Oh well...I'll just have to write a new one...

I loved the episode though, I seriously hope that Jeremie get's virtualized or does something really cool in season four. He didn't really do much in this episode (except get followed around my Millie and Tamya, lol) I hope the writers give him something seriously cool to do next season (other then sitting at a computer, no matter how cool that is!)

[Astro-Xana offline]

Lyoko didn't exist when she disappeared. (Man, I have edited this post so many times to say somethiing so simple)

Could you show me proof of where you heard that? Also, there are 3 scanners (the two were obviously made for Franz and Aelita and were obviously shown virtualizing Franz and Aelita into Lyoko in Aelita's memories in "The Key"). But what was the 3rd scanner for? I'm thinking it was obviously used to virtualize Aelita's mother as well! Also, I think it would be cute to see Aelita at her mother's side in Lyoko (which as I said before, Lyoko was recreated by her mother) battling monsters and such. Since Aelita's mother would have much more power than Aelita herself (as she is the protecter and obviously the mother of Aelita), she would have a technique similiar to Aelita's "Energy Field," but perhaps it would be called "Digital Orb" in which instead of Aelita's pink orbs of energy, Aelita's mother's orbs would be extremely powerful shining white orbs of energy which would give off a blinding white flash upon impact and would be able to destroy mobs of Xana's monsters unlike Aelita's orbs which only destroy one monster at a time!

Also, I think Aelita's mother would be smarter than Aelita herself and would find a way to deactivate towers from Sector 5 by operating the interface. Meaning, if Xana were to activate multiple towers, Aelita's mother would be able to deactivate them all by operating the interface in a certain way (in which there would be images of the towers on the interface).

[Evil Ulrich offline]

It was the greatest episode ever!!!!

[Reploid CB]

And speaking of fan-fiction, this entire season completely ruined my fan-fic. So many things (like Odd's future flash) were explained or changed that now my story is completely unplausible. I can't finish it now... Oh well...I'll just have to write a new one...

You know, it shouldn't really matter. Go ahead and keep writing your fanfic; just because things are that way in the show doesn't mean you have to change your fic to match. I mean, I started a prequel story of my own back while Season 1 was airing (Un Monde Sans Danger, right here at LF :3) and it took me well into Season 2 to finish it. In the fic, Aelita was an AI through and through and Franz Hopper was never even mentioned by name. When I found out he was her father and that she was a human, do you think I changed my fic? No! I kept it the way it was, and finished it like how I wanted to. So keep your creativity with it and write it like you want, not like how the show might dictate ^^ It's the creativity in a fic, and seeing things as an alternate to the show, that makes them a good read in my book.


...Of course, I could just be butting in unwelcome, so if I am just ignore me xD;

[Ghost Guest offline]

Lyoko didn't exist when she disappeared. (Man, I have edited this post so many times to say somethiing so simple)

Could you show me proof of where you heard that?

Yes. Do you remember the events that were revealed in "The Key"? Franz Hopper, his wife and Aelita used to live in the mountains when she was a little kid (my guess is that she was around 5 years old). Her mother then disappeared (though we don't know if she died or what). Years later, a 12 year old Aelita and his father are shown to be living in the Hermitage. Hopper built the supercomputer, Lyoko and Xana (in that order). But he didn't have the scanners and the virtualization program ready until having done 2546 RTTP. That means he lived the same day for about 7 years in order to be able to go to Lyoko. Aelita's mother disappeared years before any of that happened. (I guess this doesn't really belong here, so if you still want to talk about this let's do it in "The Key" thread, or is there one especifically about Aelita's mother? I don't know...)

[Evil Ulrich offline]

I think XANA is William now.

[2 the infirmary! offline]

Lyoko didn't exist when she disappeared. (Man, I have edited this post so many times to say somethiing so simple)

Could you show me proof of where you heard that? Also, there are 3 scanners (the two were obviously made for Franz and Aelita and were obviously shown virtualizing Franz and Aelita into Lyoko in Aelita's memories in "The Key"). But what was the 3rd scanner for? I'm thinking it was obviously used to virtualize Aelita's mother as well! Also, I think it would be cute to see Aelita at her mother's side in Lyoko (which as I said before, Lyoko was recreated by her mother) battling monsters and such. Since Aelita's mother would have much more power than Aelita herself (as she is the protecter and obviously the mother of Aelita), she would have a technique similiar to Aelita's "Energy Field," but perhaps it would be called "Digital Orb" in which instead of Aelita's pink orbs of energy, Aelita's mother's orbs would be extremely powerful shining white orbs of energy which would give off a blinding white flash upon impact and would be able to destroy mobs of Xana's monsters unlike Aelita's orbs which only destroy one monster at a time!

Also, I think Aelita's mother would be smarter than Aelita herself and would find a way to deactivate towers from Sector 5 by operating the interface. Meaning, if Xana were to activate multiple towers, Aelita's mother would be able to deactivate them all by operating the interface in a certain way (in which there would be images of the towers on the interface).

All great points. I just want to see her come back in the future.


PS: Do you think the writers put this much thought into their eps? This analysis is amazing! Headline: Astronomical XANA unveils the secret conspiracy behind Aelita's mom!!! Duh duh duh!!!

[Lord Ryu offline]

All I have to say on this episode is:

Holy crap.

I say because:

1. Holy crap, William, you may have the coolest weapon on Lyoko but you're so damn stupid!

2. Holy crap, where's Lyoko?

3. Holy crap, It's Franz Hopper!

4. Holy crap, this is awesome!

[Cassius335 offline]

PS: Do you think the writers put this much thought into their eps? This analysis is amazing! Headline: Astronomical XANA unveils the secret conspiracy behind Aelita's mom!!! Duh duh duh!!!

I hope that was sarcasm. Aelita's mother as Aelita only MUCH MUCH better? Ugh, horrid idea.

[Mewberries151]

Nicely put, Animenologist, about William's mistakes in his fight on Lyoko. You've really summed it up nicely.

In any case, just to aid the arguement, here, I re-watched "Final Round" today, and listed the number of times and the quotes (most of them exact) in which the gang warned William to be careful and his responses to them (and when they happened). There were 6 total that I counted, 5 of which happened in Lyoko (I'll * those), and to at least four of them, he gave stubborn, over-confident answers:

1) (The first scene of the episode in the scanner room after William's ID is created) "XANA is much more evil and devious than you think..." -Yumi (followed by several other pieces of advice, a notable one of caution from Aelita as well). To this William reassures them (also saying that he won't steal the show).

2*) "This isn't a video game, William. Let me remind you we've got an important mission to accomplish." -Aelita (after the both of them are virtualized into the Arena of Sector 5). William apologizes for this one...but then asks where the monsters are.

(I thought it important to note that not long after this, William says Lyoko is 10 times better than 'Galactic Battle' and even later makes a "movie set" statement. Aelita's expressions are very amusing during these scenes. ^^ )

3*) "Watch it, (Creepers) can be really tough." -Aelita. William's response? "Works for me. So can I." And later (after destroying a few Creepers): "I can't believe it. I am the man." And even later when Aelita tells him to come with her after she's pressed the XANA Key and Sector 5 is changing around. "Wait, just one or two more (Creepers), okay?" (AN: Didn't he argue earlier that they were in a hurry?)

4*) "William, get out of there! Hurry up! William, do you hear me?" -Jeremie. William's reply: "I'm not afraid of some dumb jellyfish."

5*) "William, just do what I say. I don't know what the Scyphozoa wants with you, but it can't be good." -Jeremie (William makes no response here, apparently ignoring him when his sword is smacked out of his hands, to which he utters, "Rats").

6*) "William, get out of there right now! William, do you read me?" -Jeremie. William's response: "Relax. The Scyphozoa hasn't moved an inch. It must be scared of me- ...Woah!" (The "woah" marking where he probably finally might have gotten the hint he was in big trouble... ^^ )

Six different warnings. 5 of them occuring within Sector 5. 3 of them being specifically about the Scyphozoa being dangerous. And William had lots of time in between those warnings to make a run for it. And his responses speak for themselves. He was over-confident and stubborn.

If he'd only been warned once, and hadn't been able to get away, yes, that'd have been a "rookie mistake". However, he had three warnings, all of which expressly implied that the Scyphozoa was not to be trifled with.

This isn't a bashing of his character. This is just stating the facts that he was headstrong and careless in regards to the warnings the others were giving him.


Heh...in other William-related discussion.

...Eh heh... I suppose I should own up to it...as I think I was the one who suggested first that William reminded me of Riku from the first Kingdom Hearts. *ducks tomatoes, bricks and pointy objects thrown at her*

I really, first and foremost, meant it as a joke. ^^ I'm totally know that he's not the first character who ever turned from good to evil and from malevolent influences and had a decently big sword as a weapon (heck, Anakin Skywalker could fit that bill almost...but William didn't have a lightsaber, so that's not really relevant).

I only thought that his Lyoko costume matched Riku's closer than it did Cloud's.

Reference these two pictures (oh and please disregard Sora):
Cloud
Riku
(Note the position of the Heartless symbol...and where the XANA symbol was on William's outfit)

In term's of personality, William parallels Riku better than he does Cloud as well (Cloud's a total good guy, more or less...Ulrich would probably be the closest parallel to Cloud out of the group, and even that's pushing it). Think of it in terms of relationships too...placing a certain brunette in the role of Sora...and a certain "ebony-haired girl" in Kairi's place (not that these are good character parallels, just relationship-wise). This is why I found it funny. *snickers*

Of course...I've technically yet to finish the first game (I can't beat Ansem *cries* ^^ ), I probably don't have a lot of knowledge about KH as a whole anyway and shouldn't have said anything. I just thought it was mildly amusing is all. *snickers*

Incidentally, I believe it was PepsiPiper who said that William's sword is based off of an actual, existing weapon. This is absolutely correct (same as can be applied to Cloud's sword, albeit with some futuristic modifications).

William's sword is based off of a design for a Japanese sword called a "Zanbatou" (which, as the PepsiPiper said, can be seen in use in the anime, "Rurouni Kenshin"). The Zanbatou was designed to be used in combat to slay horse and rider in one fell swing. However, because of it's great weight and height, only a few could really wield it effectively, and I believe it went into disuse as easier, more economical solutions presented themselves.

So, it is true that it's an actual weapon (not an FF knock-off...at least not historically speaking, since they stole it from the same place ^^ ). Now if he'd had a "Gun Blade"...or a very long katana by the name of "Masamune"...then it'd be "stealing" but otherwise. X)

Eh heh...so, yeah, the Kingdom Hearts thing was my bad originally, I think. *sweatdrop*

*runs away* Don't kill me.

[Evil Ulrich offline]

I think William would beat Ulrich in a battle on Lyoko.


William weapon is the greatest one yet!!!

[Megalyoko offline]

I think William would beat Ulrich in a battle on Lyoko.

Not a chance,but under Xanas control yes.

[Cassius335 offline]

*applauds* Nice post, Mew

[2 the infirmary! offline]

PS: Do you think the writers put this much thought into their eps? This analysis is amazing! Headline: Astronomical XANA unveils the secret conspiracy behind Aelita's mom!!! Duh duh duh!!!

I hope that was sarcasm. Aelita's mother as Aelita only MUCH MUCH better? Ugh, horrid idea.

I think you took what I wrote in the wrong context. I agree, that would be a horrible idea. That's not what I meant at all.

Also, what was with the purple glow of William when he destroys the core? I thought that it was supposed to be red...

[Carth]

I noticed something strange.

Right after William is possesed, he's standing by the core with some Creepers. He says 'YAR'...and then the camera cuts- and XANAWilliam looks...sad, almost. And then he tries to smile, but his eyes tell volumes.

I'll upload a clip if anyone's confused. But...any speculation as to why? Or did I misinterpret the scene?

[Reploid CB]

Actually, I noticed that too. Like I remarked to a friend at the time, "It looks like XANA's control isn't complete." And that remains my going theory, that that was the last spark of William as he was.

Of course I'm probably wrong, but it's only a theory...

[Darkborn offline]

I saw that too. I just thought it was an evil smirk. A lame one at that matter.

[Briana offline]

Ahh I'm not the only one who noticed that. I'm like, "WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM XANA LYOKO GONNA BE GONES!" but it's like he was sad.

[Darkborn offline]

Maybe he was possibly mourning his birth place?

[Reploid CB]

"Moment of silence aaaannnddd...moment's over. ATTTAAAAACK!!!"

[Stargate offline]

I noticed that as well. I guess XANA has some emotion after all, if he felt remorse over destroying Lyoko... or maybe William isn't fully under his control. I bet it's one of those two, but I can't figure out which one...