S4 Episode 9: I'd Rather Not Talk About It

[Tangent128 offline]

You gotta love the polarizing episodes...

I mostly agree with Mewberries's summaries above.

...

5. A below average Lyoko section. I swear, the way William's losing effectiveness, He'll be a Kankrelot by the finale.

Too true...

[JesusFreak offline]

Um, that was mine...

[Carth]

Yeah, I noticed that too. That was slightly overdone. And in a few too many scenes.

The caribou poop thing...yeah, I think that was there to make the kids laugh, because my two little sisters (ages 11 and 6) were in hysterics while I was like "...what?" The part I really thought was funny was that he was in Canada. Not only is Canada just plain awesome, they mentioned that Jim was in Quebec. Quebec is a French-speaking area. BOOYEAH.

[Stonecreek]

Pointless filler episode. Everything was telegraphed from far out. Once the gang started training, you knew they had to make use of it in some way during the episode, and they did. Jim was working the kids to the bone, but you knew they'd make up for it with some fluff, and they did. You knew that things in Lyoko would go fine, because Jeremie wouldn't be there to fix them. This episode felt very forced, bland, and even irritating at the start. Aside from some minor character development, this episode could've been left out and I wouldn't have cared. 4/10, mainly because of repeated use of caribou poop (trying to puchs the rating a wee bit) and a nice fight betweeen Yumi and William.

[Kamekai offline]

Yeah, the whole thing about them using all of their newfound training on the same day is... bleh.

[JesusFreak offline]

It looks like They upgraded The Core's Shields quite a bit.

[Lyoko Wario offline]

I give it an 8...

I didn't think it was bad at all. I see some complaints about Jim's attitude, but the way I see it, it hasn't changed as much as you guys say... he is a phys ed coach, and that's pretty much how they all behave, right? Besides, I don't really think he was lying to the kids, I think the flashbacks that showed Jim doing far less glorious things than he was describing were just what the kids were imagining and not what was "really" supposed to be happening, as opposed to Jim's own anime-esque memories.

Something I disliked was the "caribou poop" thing. I think they mentioned that little gem of a phrase six or seven times on the episode. Come on, things like that are the reason a lot of people still think of cartoons as culturally irrelevant children's entertainment. They might have used a much more sophisticated word. May I suggest "droppings"? It would have made the scene sound a whole lot less infantile, and it's a perfectly okay word to use in a family-rated show as far as I know.

I enjoyed Yumi in this episode. "He's not my boyfriend! He's a bit too clingy for me, anyway."

[Taelia offline]

Not all PE teachers are the way you're describing. When I was in school, I took adapted PE - one on one, the teacher and myself. My PE teachers were very kind, and made the class fun and enjoyable for me. Being called a "worthless maggot" is not cool. This episode was poorly-executed and Jim's behavior was very irritating.

I also concur with Stonecreek and Aurabolt's statements.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Sorry, Taelia, but Kadic doesn't have that. They asked for a boot camp, they got a boot camp. Please remember, the writers need to keep the charachter IN CHARACHTER. They can't go all MarySue-ish in the middle of the season, or ever. That's what Charachter Development is. It's the gradual changing of charachters, not all of a sudden OMG I'm totally gonna be all nice A+'s for everyone!

No, I'm sorry, but plot writing is much harder than that, and there's no room for changes.

[Malkmusian offline]

Was the caribou poop conversation just to make this show a kids' show? Yes, it was. It's also stupid, too. I was like, "..what in the heck was this piece of s**t?" Anyways, Aelita and the gang have their flaws straightened out and I thought for a second that Big Fat Cheesehead was activated for a while.

[Taelia offline]

As Aurabolt pointed out two pages ago, the boot camp/training camp mentality that Jim has is flawed and messed up. NO ONE works any child until their bodies are so sore that they can't even move. I also agree that the man has been doing this s**t for several episodes so far, and that it's ticking some people off. We mostly see the so-called "training" for most of the episode, which is stupid. Ulrich gets his vertigo, for example, but Jim obviously doesn't sympathize with the boy.

I'm sorry if I'm saying this over and over, everyone. I just really heat up when episodes like IRNTAI air. See my second signature banner and you'll see what I mean. And I also need to chill out a bit about the whole thing too. I mean, hey, it's just a filler episode. It'll probably be forgotten by the next show, and I need to chillax.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

No, Taelia, that's a signature, not a statement. Sorry if you think it's mean, but Jim wasn't asked to give them a little tough training and then soften up if they got a little scared. He's a gym teacer, not a therapist.

[Kamekai offline]

Not to sound mean either, but Angelbolt's right, and apparently it worked on Jeremie.

[Aurabolt offline]

I have to agree with AngelBolt on a couple things, Taelia. Firstly, if they instantly changed Jim from a rough-and-tumble Phys Ed teacher (Which is the only thing I think has ever been true about the man.) and enforcer, to someone who treats these characters kindly, I would have issue. It's out of character, and in terms of plot and character development alone, I couldn't respect that choice. As things progress, they can certainly make a change in the man like they did with the reconciliation between Jeremie and Jim. (If I hear anymore about that boot camp training with the knightly nerd, though, it'll be too soon...)

Also, being a teacher and now as a trainer, Jim does have the right to dismiss emotional and psychological issues, such as negativity and unwillingness amongst others, to do what he needs to do. Don't forget; they are NOT paying him to do this. He's doing this out of the goodness of his heart, and the wish to see kids with potential strive under harsh conditions. Sure, his training is inaccurate, highly unorthodox, and misinformed to most of the kids' problems, but he is trying, and that is something.

Now, where I have issue is claiming that those issues are minor. In "Vertigo", Ulrich was only capable of working against the fear for a small time, but ultimately failing. For Ulrich, it is a major problem which Jim should have been aware of from the get-go, considering he knows the boy better than he does the others, Ulrich being his soccer star. A "little scared" does not even begin to cut it; Ulrich freezes in place, his palms sweat, and his breathing is most likely entered a state of hyperventilation, which signify his intense fear ALONGSIDE the symptoms of Vertigo, which include nausea and susceptibility to dizziness. This isn't just a minor fear, or even just a phobia; it's a medical condition which has very lasting effects, and he did threaten Ulrich's life when he got him up that rope wall.

[Taelia offline]

I understand now. He's only trying to help them, even if his help is as pathetic as it was. In my universe, Jim's kindness allows him to help the children more often, in even more orthodox ways. AU Jim also doesn't insult a child if he/she does make a mistake, like falling off a balance beam. He, however, gets stern sometimes, but not too terribly angry.

You should also note that when an emergency arises, a character like Jim has a significant attitude adjustment, and that's what my friend Liz and I love. Jim's nice side.

Ulrich, Yumi, and Odd backed off from the training because they couldn't handle it, but Jeremie (inconsequentially, considering that he CLIMBED THE ROOF in "Maiden Voyage") wanted to continue with it. BORING! I also agree with Stonecreek that the plot entirely was just stupid filler.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Taelia, this isn't Your Jim. It's the Writer's Jim. They're completely different. I really wish you'd stop comparing them.

EDIT:... Why was I calling you Misha?

[Taelia offline]

Alright, alright.

[ambitiouslove offline]

Hmm... I liked this episode a lot. In fact, it's my favorite one all season... from the way everyone's been talking about the lastest episodes, the show seems like it's losing a lot of watchers/fans/etc...

I didn't think Jim was being mean at all. That's how Jim is, and he's been a lot meaner in past episodes. They asked for a "Special Forces" type of training and that's what Jim gave them. I mean, it's really the gang's fault for asking them the same day after Jeremie started training them. If they'd thought about it more they should have asked the next week lol

I absolutely agree with Mewberries on the Army training thing. Now, I don't believe that Jim is being entirely 110% true on his past, but I have some understanding on how training works. Just a note, my dad was Special Forces and my husband is in the Army. Right now I live and work on an Army base, so I am around training/hear about it every single day. Also I'm a huge nerd about this kind of thing, mostly weaponry, lol. Depending on what kind of Special Forces Jim was in, either Navy or Army Infantry based, their training is of the top, the 'elite'. You train so much that you go away for years at a time, so mostly single men do it, but I know a few people in Special Forces that have families and have done it for the huge raise

In Army Basic Training, or in the Army in general, you absolutely CANNOT yell back because there are a lot of consequences. If you're a Private and yell at your Drill Sergeant (wich is an E6 or above, around about 6-10 years in service, I think) then you are in a load of trouble. In Basic Training, the instructors yell at you because it's a mind game. They WANT you to become tougher. They will train you hard and make you do stuff 'perfect' to give you discipline. They can yell and insult you as much as they want but at least one is good-- they can never HIT you because they'll get in trouble You can never yell back if you're a lower rank than the person screaming. If you react even more harshly, like shoving a higher-up, you could go to jail (Military Police jail or Country Jail), and/or get an Article 15 which is loss of rank, extra duty for 45 days (Typical day is from 6:30AM to 5PM... extra duty is more like until 9PM every day, including weekends), and your pay is cut in half (as if it wasn't low all ready!). The gang took it, I think, because that's what they asked for. I don't think they complained too much to Jim, just showed signs of being really tired.

In short, I think Jim's 'military training' was pretty lenient. Sorry for the long post :X I think this is the longest post I've ever written lol

[Tangent128 offline]

Now, I don't believe that Jim is being entirely 110% true on his past,

110% true? I guess that's why they include "and nothing but the truth" in those oaths...


And yeah, I have no knowledge of military training (the nearest Navy base is more research-oriented... they've got a railgun ), but I can see why they would want you to take insults. If you can't control yourself during training, how can you expect to control yourself under fire? On that note, probably 90% of disciplinary action at my school results from students talking back instead of just accepting correction...

[bduddy offline]

Fillericious... 5/10. I don't feel like there's much more to be said... I mean, come on, this could have been S1. Come to think about it, I did get the feeling that this maybe wasn't really "current"... could perhaps this be an older unreleased episode, kept until now? Or am I just imagining things?

(did I say "fillericious"? Oh geez, why couldn't I think of a better word than that? It must be too late...)

[Sithking Zero offline]

I liked this episode a lot! Shows how Jim's good at PE (an impression that I did not get upon first observation of him), had a bunch of funny moments, and was a bit of a throwback to previous seasons in terms of XANA attacks. I mean, A possessed animal, trying to kill Jeremie, also serving as a distraction while William attacks the Core of Lyoko, and XANA cloaking a tower? Only CL could blend them all so seamlessly.

I loved Jim in this episode! While some may say that he was too harsh, I thought he was perfect. He's not supposed to be a fatherly figure, and they didn't ask him to be one. They asked for Boot Camp, and dang it, they sure as hell got Boot camp. He trained them well and hard, and I would have wanted to be trained like that (had I no choice BUT to pick a boot camp.)

YAY For Aelita's energy spheres!

BTW, what did Jim say at the end of the episode while he was talking to them by the bench, when he had the cane? TiVo cut that part out.

[MY85 offline]

If I would have voted for the episode yesterday, I would have voted 3/10 for being an incredibly pathetic episode. Now that I got the chance to see it again, I think that it was a half-*ssed episode. I'll give it a 5/10. I'm being extremely kind with awarding a 5/10 to this episode. If this episode took place on Season 1 or 2, it would have been good. But at Season 4, this just doesn't roll with me.

The begning scenes were pathetic. My middle finger raised at Jeremie from the start of the show. My middle finner raised again because Kiwi didn't took a bite at Jeremie's testicles. As far as this season goes, the show has been building the kids as warriors that are more powerful than Xana-William and Jeremie would bother to train them? If I wanted to see somebody training his *ss off, that would be Jeremie. According to the few information of Jeremie at Lyoko and how he does at sports, he's most likely worth crap as a Lyoko warrior. He's the one who should train in case some unofrtunate event would happen. I for one would like to see Jeremie impress me rather than just being the nerd who bosses around his friends. Yeah, someone has to give orders and stuff, but I'm kinda tired of seeing Jeremie doing the same old sh*t on just about every episode.

While Jim's knowledge and Boot Camp training methods are well done enough to buy his credibility as a professional PE, the flashback scenes are yelling the following to the fans who watch Code Lyoko: Jim is a worthless piece of crap. Were the flashbacks amusing? It's bad enough that on certain episodes, they have to make Jim even crappier than he was already seen in other episodes. But the flashbacks succeded to kill his credibility as a Boot camp trainer. Who the hell hires a trainer who has been treated like a maid? The Lyoko team should have cut him off ASAP rather than continue with the process. Now, he probably BS-ed the teens with his past, but the flashbacks were still pathetic to watch IMO.

Caribou Poop... what the f*ck? The writers succeeded again in pissing me off with half-*ssed crap. It just sounds way too childish to me. They make Jim sound moronic again, which is nothing new, but still annoys me.

Forest scenes: I smiled when Ulrich and Aelita got knocked off Ulrich's vehicle. It was even better to see Ulrich getting devirtualized by a Krabe. Hiding towers is an interesting idea from Xana, though. I'll give the writers that as a positive to the show.

Sector 5 scenes: I didn't gave a crap about Odd. However, I'm still annoyed to see William treated like crap. Now people would say that Yumi kicked *ss on the episode (her lines made me smile a little), but I just can't buy the idea of seeing William getting his *ss kicked without the fight being something difficult. I know that while more CL episodes aired, the warriors got stronger. But this doesn't apply to William. That's when I raise the bullsh*t flag.

The wild boar: First off, where did Xana got the boar from? Possesing a wild boar may seem stupid, but what annoyed me even more was seeing the boar hitting the tree and not knocking off Jeremie from the ropes. What would have been more believable to me would have been seeing the boar knock Jeremie off the ropes to the ground and beat him to a bloody pulp. Jeremie's weak enough to get beaten up by the boar. Why can't the writers scrpit the boar to send Jeremie to the hospital? It would have been great to have Jeremie injured by the end of this episode, but the Lyoko team would still have Aelita to lead them while Jeremie heals (and probably Xana targets the wounded Jeremie). They opted for their traditional endings instead.

The good thing from the ending of the episode was to possibly see Jeremie getting trained by Jim. However, I really doubt the writers would continue with Jim and Jeremie. So that good thing would most likely get scrapped or ignored.

[Mewberries151]

Fillericious... 5/10. I don't feel like there's much more to be said... I mean, come on, this could have been S1. Come to think about it, I did get the feeling that this maybe wasn't really "current"... could perhaps this be an older unreleased episode, kept until now? Or am I just imagining things?

(did I say "fillericious"? Oh geez, why couldn't I think of a better word than that? It must be too late...)

Nope. This is a brand new episode. You can tell both from the quality of the animation...and the fact that they're in their season 4 outfits (both real world and Lyoko) which were not designed until sometime near the end of Season 3 much less animated. ^^;


Rodri, please mind your language. I'm really getting tired of warning you about this.

The wild boar: First off, where did Xana got the boar from? Possesing a wild boar may seem stupid, but what annoyed me even more was seeing the boar hitting the tree and not knocking off Jeremie from the ropes. What would have been more believable to me would have been seeing the boar knock Jeremie off the ropes to the ground and beat him to a bloody pulp. Jeremie's weak enough to get beaten up by the boar. Why can't the writers scrpit the boar to send Jeremie to the hospital? It would have been great to have Jeremie injured by the end of this episode, but the Lyoko team would still have Aelita to lead them while Jeremie heals (and probably Xana targets the wounded Jeremie). They opted for their traditional endings instead.

*sighs* There is only so much one can do within the span of 26 animated minutes.

Having Jeremie have to be sent to the hospitol, much less have the gang find out about it, track him down and then try to RTTP would have been nearly another entire episode in itself (actually, that's essentially what "Temptation" was), and would have distracted from the main purpose of the plot which was to show the kids honing their skills so as to fight XANA better, and giving Jim some well-deserved character development.

[Taelia offline]

Or rather, character regression. Mew, please listen to me. You just don't understand what it means for, say, Ulrich to feel Vertigo and possibly die. I actually had chest pains and a near-heart attack from watching this crappy episode, actually. My friend Elizabeth even shuddered at Jim's boot camp attitude. I myself can't stand people with that kind of over-authoriatative bullsh*t attitude. When I was in the sixth grade, I was pestered and annoyed by my sixth-grade teacher, Mr. John Tolerton. He yelled at me and made me feel low periodically. Once, he wrongdully punished me by telling me to sitr outside and not talk to anyone. He then slammed the door, quite loudly, in my face. I was crying so hard my eyes were red! I COULDN'T STAND IT!! My mom understood my sadness and called for a meeting with the middle school principal, Mr. Germain (pronounced GUR-mun). He was like Mr. Delmas: firm, but caring. I really started crying while watching this episode because Jim's mentality reminded me of Mr. Tolerton's dishonorable treatment of me back then.

[Tekirai offline]

Fillericious... 5/10. I don't feel like there's much more to be said... I mean, come on, this could have been S1. Come to think about it, I did get the feeling that this maybe wasn't really "current"... could perhaps this be an older unreleased episode, kept until now? Or am I just imagining things?

(did I say "fillericious"? Oh geez, why couldn't I think of a better word than that? It must be too late...)

Nope. This is a brand new episode. You can tell both from the quality of the animation...and the fact that they're in their season 4 outfits (both real world and Lyoko) which were not designed until sometime near the end of Season 3 much less animated. ^^;

That sounded more like 'the overall quality of this episode made me think it was from season 1' to me, IMO.

Sooo, just saw it. FILLER. FILLER. FILLLLER. And bad filler. So I didn't like it very much. When the poop thing came up I was like '... ... ........FAIL', and I didn't see any U/Y anywhere like everyone said. :\ The flashbacks in this were a little scary, though... especially Jeremie's mental image at the end... o____0

And Taelia, we get it already. You didn't like the episode. They asked for training, they got it. Training needs discipline, and they got it. Jim did as he was asked. That's all there is to it. Why you expect Jim to be 'I LOVE EVERYONE :D' all the time I don't know, but that's just it, alright?